Ok, political experts - Social Security

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Joyce Martino, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Joyce Martino

    Joyce Martino Members

    Can Trump achieve his goals to slash social security? I hear so much on this and wonder what is said here on this one.
     
    stormountainman likes this.
  2. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

    Obviously, not if he doesn't get re-elected. He's trying to bankrupt it with a payroll tax cut, which would make it insolvent in three years, from what I remember when I read something about it.

    Let's just vote him out of office so we don't have to deal with him any more.
     
    Tishomingo likes this.
  3. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Bankruptcy of SS and of the state pensions for public sector workers has been a long time coming with many actors and villans

    Democrats will hold SS hostage to public sector pension bailout, just watch.
     
  4. jimandjan

    jimandjan Member

    Years ago social security, was fine but congress dipped into it. Now that it's broke, they want to do away with it. And do away with old people, who no longer pay taxes.
     
  5. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Good Question! I have been listening to right wing extremist radio talk show hosts for many years and they have clearly expressed the desire to end this government mandated service, right along with the delivery of mail. Republican members of congress, right along with the radio show hosts have blamed poor Americans for these entitlements, without telling their fans that Social Security and Medicare were mandated, meaning people had to play and pay weather they wanted or not. Now that people have worked decade after decade and then some are expected by the Republican Party to go die on the sidewalk. The American workers paid a part of their income into this system on a monthly basis and consequently have a contractual right with the government. They now have a contractual right to the benefits of this government mandated contract. Social Security was established to save starving Americans from an economic catastrophe which had been caused by a Republican administration and its stupid Laissez Faire policies which served the interest of big business at the expense of all other Americans. Today we have jackasses in the White House who are hell bent on disabling any and all government services and protections including entitlements, environmental protections, education, food assistance, and housing for poor and homeless. People like me started paying into Social Security when minimum wage in America was $1.15 per hour. We paid into this system our entire lives and will assert our contractual rights. There are over 66 million Americans on Social Security and The Republican Party can expect them to vote.
     
  6. erofant

    erofant Members

    Explain to me and all the others on here what's wrong with unionized workers negotiating for a good retirement package. Are you jealous because you don't have a good retirement deal??? If un-organized, private sector workers try to save enough out of the cheap, measly pay that employers are paying ............... they'll never have anywhere NEAR what's needed to retire in a somewhat decent financial condition.

    So just what is the crime in people being smart enough to stand together and negotiate a better retirement funding?? Seems to me it's doing what's best for their families so their kids won't be stuck paying for their "golden years" care.

    And the reason so many public sector pensions are under-funded is because REPUBLICAN governors and Congressmen decided they just weren't going to adhere to those legally negotiated contracts and stopped the money from going into those pensions. Legal contracts!! Who here would like to enter into a legal contract to have your house roof re-shingled, and after the roof was done - it leaked. But the contractor refused to honor that contract / warranty and refused to fix the roof. Does that sound right to anyone here?? And in the case of U.S. workers - - how do they go about suing the governor or Congress for breach of contract???

    The real criminals are the ones who refused to honor those contracts.

    Or maybe you think multi-millionaire & multi-billionaire corporate executives need to keep that money more than the avg. U.S. worker?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
    stormountainman and scratcho like this.
  7. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    They did but the real problem is the boomer generation. There is so many of them and while their parents had 4-5 kids they went on to have 1-2. Just by existing they are draining the system and there is not enough workers to replace what they take. It's made worse because they are so sensitive to "socialism" while benefiting from it. The new workers are expected to fund a socialist system they will not benefit from. It's one of the main conflicts between boomers and millennial's. People my age want some kind of healthcare when we are old. We want what our parents had and the parents call us lazy, entitled, and selfish for asking for it.

    It leads to resentment because each side thinks the other is clueless. Without our side doing everything there is for you because you can not earn it. It's right in the name social security but you can't convince older people of anything. We need a new system.
     
  8. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    Speaking of Bankruptcy, I wonder if Trump & Pence & McConnel have stopped to think about the number of Americans who would be forced to file for bankruptcy after a serious medical issue, like a heart attack or cancer? Without government help for the American people in the form of Social Security and Medicare, the courts would be working around the clock. You would think Republicans would learn to ponder before engaging mouth.
     
    Eric!, snowtiggernd and ZenKarma like this.
  9. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    The amazing thing is that so many of those who depend on Social Security are Trump supporters. It used to be called the "third rail" of U.S. politics. Every time the Republicans have made a move on it, as they did under Bush, they've been burned. But they never cease trying.
     
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  10. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    The system works just fine. We only need to prevent Mitch McConnell and the Republicans from stealing Social Security money from OUR fund. It was intended for the American people, not for rich friends of Republicans. Look at how much in millions went to wall street tycoons during the Bush Banker "too big to fail" bailout? Look at how much Coronavirus stimulation money went to stimulate billionaires like Munutchin and his California private resort?
     
  11. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    So much to unpack concerning inequality between priviliged public sector workers and the rest of us. You mention millionaire corporate types, a cliche, but at least their earnings do not come at expense of public taxes. At the least, now millionaires have to pay full freight on real estate taxes.

    And yes, i'm jealous, just like all of the grievance mongers I see on television. I'm OK as long as SS isnt bankrupt. How nice that public sector workers have politicians in the pocket and have won deal that are driving the states bankrupt. Yes, its good for members, not taxpayers or the general public. Not if the state is unable to fund the pension.

    It is not so much my personal pique as much a concern for the public fisc.

    Republicans ? ! ?, Please. How many Republicans are in control of those states with the most unfunded pensions. Stop reading your DNC script.
    Blue States are facing bankruptcy from these pensions. I am in New Jersey it is a lived in experience.

    Our NJ media wants to talk about a fat man on the beach but wont touch how broken public pensions are.

    If it was the private sector creating such schemes there would be outrage. Please disclose to the members just how bad the pensions are underfunded and the projected payout to each should things remain the same.

    Yet, I am in favor of a limited bail out. Let the members take a haircut. Can we cap public pensions? Where is the give back?
    Yes let privliged public sectors workers give back concessions as part of a bail out.
     
  12. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

    In the short term, yes. In the long term, it requires Congressional approval. If the republicans retain control of the Senate, it's a possibility. What are the consequences? For one, you would have thousands more homeless people. The people conservatives detest.
    Seeing as how the younger generations can'/don't save money, specially those working a gig job, what happens when they retire?

    Another example of trump supporters shooting themselves in the foot.
     
    stormountainman likes this.
  13. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I favor fixing, adjusting, and repairing Social Security and Medicare, not a drastic crazy irrational replacement which allows private sector corporations to get rich off the tax dollar.
     
  14. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I remember homelessness. There lots of guys on the streets just like me, not alcoholics, not drug addicted, not criminals, not mentally ill, and with a couple of college degrees. But, when they lost their income. or got divorced, the bi fat "H" got attached next to their name. After that it becomes very hard to get a job, or apartment. The rich and powerful who control the job market and the housing market don't want to deal with the "H" people.
     
    unfocusedanakin likes this.
  15. srgreene

    srgreene Members

    Your medical misfortune does not constitute a claim on my paycheck (and visa versa, of course).

    Our technology has created an enormously capable medical care system. It also is enormously expensive, and the fact is that neither we as individuals, nor we as a society can provide the most advanced care to all. Nor should we try.

    You are free to buy as much insurance as your pocketbook will allow and an insurer is willing to provide you. AFAIAC, you are not free to come to me with a gun (which is what our tax system amounts to) and demand that I pay your medical cost.

    The federal government should basically do three things:

    1) provide for the common defense of the nation;
    2) provide a legal system;
    3) provide an enforcement mechanism for that system.
     
  16. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment

    So, basically you are saying only the wealthy should survive...
     
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  17. srgreene

    srgreene Members

    What a incredibly stupid statement, one larded with contempt for the vast majority of people, who you somehow think cannot survive in society based on their own merits.

    And of course, you don't bother yourself to address the issue I raised. You only view the majority of humans is that they can only survive as thieves.
     
  18. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment

    I paid into a system my whole working life. (social security) Yeah I paid taxes without pitching a bitch and calling it "theft" and equating it with some other guy pointing a gun at my head.

    Never had health insurance until I was eligible for Medicare because it's not affordable.

    People like you think I shouldn't have that Medicare anymore...

    Who is the thief with a gun here?
     
    Joyce Martino and snowtiggernd like this.
  19. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    The U.S. Constitution says it can also
    (4) tax and spend for the general welfare. And that's how it gets to come to you and take social security and medicare out of your paycheck . Ultimately, laws are backed by legitimated force. As English jurist John Austin once said, "You may think that it is a very bad, very foolish, very wicked law, and you may be right. But if you think it is not the law, we can prove you wrong by fining you, putting you behind bars or hanging you by the neck.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020 at 9:01 PM
  20. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

    What a stupid comment.
     

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