Obama's murder of innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan

I didn't see anyone say YOU and EVERYONE serving was toasting kids. Everyone's comments have been aimed at the leadership, you are taking this way to personal man.

 

The one point raised that no one in this thread can disagree with is the fact that since Obama supports war then those that were once against war will now be for it just because their candidate supports it.

I think that's very strange. To be vehemently against something then change your mind simply because its a democrat doing the same thing instead of a republican.

Ty Codemeister, your heart is in the right place. I just don't agree with your line of work. Please don't hate me for saying that. But just because someone doesn't exactly agree with war that does not mean that we hate you or see you as some kind of baby killing machine.

We just feel that Iraq would be overall better without occupation.

 

Obama is not a leftist. He is a liberal.

"When I see a liberal, I reach for my gun." ~ Malcom X (paraphrase)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYfqFz8lBVQ&feature=related

Almost get hit by one of those and tell me how you feel about the war. Just look at the god damn messages for that video! They are NOT fucking playing... There are expected to be 60 rockets launch at our area withing the next 5 days.

What do you all suggest then? They have already said multiple times that they will attack america again. These people control the oil, they have the money to cause more damage than you think... This HAS to be the stupidest fucking war. Either people think that the gov. is doing crazy shit, or the people who support it are criticized.

You will expect us to do something about it when a rocket hits your house. We are doing what we HAVE to do to keep things the way they are. No wonder our country is going down the hole.

Its a sad day when a soldier is spit on because someone "doesn't agree with the war". Can't wait to get out...

 

They are doing that because they wish us to leave. Read their comments. Why would they mention the 70k innocent deaths? They are foolish, but they are foolish because they are desperate. No offense to you, but they want you out of there and they are making threats because they are very upset at the occupation.

I think that their responses are ridiculous and very hateful, but you have to understand their point of view in this. I don't agree with what they are doing. I hate all violence, but you have to understand why they are doing it. They aren't doing it because they are evil monsters.

We are only instilling more hatred for both sides by remaining there.

We call them insurgents. They call us infidels. Is it really all that different? We both use these terms to dehumanize the other side. There are many youtube videos that will show Americans making threats and hateful comments towards Iraqi's. What's so different between us and them?

I don't know that you can make judgments that people are ready to kill based on youtube comments

I am not saying people lie necessarily, but you have to take comments and compare them to the gravity of the situation and so on.

A while ago, I would make comments like, "Nuke the middle east, problem solved." Imagine Muslims seeing that... He could tell all his friends evil infidels are ready to blow them all up...

I wish that you can come home soon too. Good luck.

 

I've read some comments by Al-Quaeda.
They mention the death toll because they are using it as a propaganda tool.
Al-Quaeda isn't "very upset at the occupation", another propaganda tool.
If they were, they wouldn't be killing Iraqs; they would be putting MPs up for election, with the manifesto of: "Foreign troops out of..." by now.
They have not achieved much through violence, but these guys are not about the political process...they are all about violence.

They ignore the thousands of people that they have killed and THERE occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, backed/supported by the Taleban.

Wiki:Al-Qaeda's objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. Reported beliefs include that a Christian-Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam, and that the killing of bystanders and civilians is religiously justified in jihad.

Those guys are nuts and evil monsters.

The people that actually LIVE in Iraq and Afghanistan, have the right to be pissed off with our occuption (Occupation over)
They showed how pissed off they were, for a few years, leading to almost a civil war ( fueled by secterianism, too ).
The majority of these people didn't want Al-Quaeda in their country, either.

Then you have all the "normal" people with varying thoughts and feelings.
But, chose to vote instead of killing each other.

There is a big difference between mouthing some ignorant, idle threats/comments on Youtube...and blowing people up in the name of Jihad etc.
You will always get some idiots mouthing stuff on Youtube/Internet.
It Isn't JUST some dumb Americans either.
There are plenty of dumb Iraqis/Afghans/Muslims too.

Al-Quaeda call us and ANYBODY that is not with them, infidels.
Taking "He who is not with me is against me..." a little too seriously.

No offence, but I think you have seen the situation in a too simplistic way. I would have thought different of you.

 

I've seen you thanked for your service at least 3 times in this thread, who is spitting on you?
we just don't agree man, again, stop taking it so fucking personal. Our country would fail without guys like you. We all know that dude. Look at the title of the website though dude lol, most of us are hippies.

 

I don't think he meant anybody in this thread.

 

oh lol, well my point remains valid

 

I don't think it made much sense...but I won't persue this...as you probably meant well.

 

All I was getting at is that people generally respect service, but there are a lot of us here that just don't agree with how and why this war is dragging on.

 

Fair enough.

 

I am not seeing it in a simplistic way that you suggest. I realize what you tell me and I know that is a reality. I still believe that Americans, not necessarily ones that assign allegiance to anyone but their own self interest, are bringing about much of these conflicts to a much higher degree then they would have been without.

We also have to look into what gives rise to extremism and what fuels it. I do believe that we are merely adding fuel to the fire sort of speak with our actions, regardless of intention.

In the end, it's just a matter of perspective and how we perceive the data we have before us. You see it as necessary because its for the greater good/best option (correct me if I am wrong), while I don't.

I don't really see either of us changing our minds on this and that we'll just end up going back and forth. But I just want you to know that I do value your opinion, I just don't see your information as meaning all to much in the greater view. It ultimately comes down to what one believes is the best alternative to help correct the issues that you mention. My view requires that we leave and your view, I am assuming, is that we stay for a little longer to clear up some mess. But it's my opinion that this usually doesn't end well, and just ends up creating more mess. I see the same happening for all wars and I don't see why this one world be any different unless humans turn into something other than humans.

I am still a non-interventionist at heart and in mind. It just makes the most sense to me, always has. Maybe my mind will change one day, who knows.

 

It was more the amount of people/groups you mentioned and what you said about them.
For instance, you said:They are doing that because they wish us to leave. Read their comments.
I was assuming you were talking about Al-Quaeda.
Not indigenous insurgents.
Perhaps they fight because they are desperate and are upset over the occupancy - yes.
But even the worst groups for indigenous insurgent behaviour, has now given peace and diplomacy a chance.

You said: They aren't doing it because they are evil monsters.

Well, imo they - Al-Quaeda - are.

You must realise those guys are not rational.
It isn't just Americans who feel their wrath.
I'm never going to agree that we are fueling their brand of violence.
They are not desperate...they are not upset about the occupation - they are occupiers too.
Atleast we had the decency to hand the country back to the people.
Yes, they may say they are upset - but they are not.
It is a means to an end.

If those guys have convinced an inteligent person that they are desperate and are upset over the occupation...
It isn't much to think these guys are good with their PR and probably could make the opening of a McDonalds, in Turkey, provocation to kill the manager for bringing evil Americanism to a Muslim country.

Imo, most extremism is born from fundementalism...and irrationality followed by self-justification. Also, a very good PR machine.
But, some extremism I can see is born from genuine grievances.
I would not tar them all with the same brush.
But, at the end of the day, once you start justifying things like Al-Quaeda do - you lose any and all legitimacy, imo.

I agree it is a about perception.
But most people are reasonable at the end of the day.
You have to start deluding yourself to really continue thinking a certain way, imo

 

It wasn't the best option, but it was the final option.
I do think it was for the greater good, though.

 

Poor people

 

Well, odon put it all pretty well. I am just to frustrated to be able to put it out like he did. I do also know that most of what he says is true, because I see it everyday.

I am talk about being PHYSICALLY spit on by americans when I get off the plane in my uniform. Or the people that go to our funerals to yell how they are happy we died.

You need to remember that this place is also brainwashed COMPLETELY! I asked one of OUR translators the other day on why she thinks us americans are here, and she said that she didn't know! She is an Iraqi citizen that is working for us (like most translators over here. They are coming back to america with us because they will be killed if they are put back into Iraq...)

Anyways, she knew little about the war and why it happened. She joined our band wagon though because she saw that we are the bigger better etc. group. Just like most foreigner, she wanted to go to america too.

Does it make sense that a translator that works for us thinks that we are over here to control them? She even admits that the country is violent, but thats "the way we are". She told me that it will go back to the way it was once we leave.

Lets see if this makes sense. I asked her afterwords why they are fighting all the time, and she told me 'because!'. She went on to tell me this weird long story and I learned some of their thoughts behind their actions. THEN I asked her about the gaza strip. I asked her if her section of the religion (shite) fought the others (sunni) over there. (In case you don't know about the gaza strip... they were shooting rockets out of gaza into isreal, which caused them to attack gaza.) She told me NO!?!? Now, THAT does not make sense. She could not explain why they don't over there.

Point is, these people are EXTREMELY violent for no reason. Might you think that someone who gets to see both sides knows better? I am not saying that some of your points are totally invalid, but the US is doing what is best for everyone. England gets attacked way more than we do. Germany too. Thats why they are over here helping us fight (keep the peace, now).

Some facts that you might think are interesting;
I am on hip forums too, because I used to think (somewhat) like you. I was anti-war until I got over here.
The Iraqis never got to see ANYTHING other than their 2 channels on TV (censored by the gov.). No internet, mail or banks cards. If the gov. found a satellite transceiver, whoever owned it was punished by death.
Iraqis still don't have mail or bank cards.
Iraqi men DO think "men are for pleasure, women are for procreation." (I thought this was a joke)
Of the 70,000 that were killed, 90% of them deserved to die. We NEVER attack a place without letting the citizens know before hand. If they don't leave, thats on them.
107mm rockets are fast...

Us being over here is bringing the country up-to-date on actual information. The citizens are slowly learning what is/was going on. What better reason for a war than to protect other countries and liberate a nation?

P.S. This post sucks because there are a million things going through my head. I can't type them fast enough to get them all in order...

 

I am taking it personal because it is. It is MY country that I have almost died for. When people say the war is pointless or wrong, they are saying that what I believe in is pointless or wrong, because I am risking my life for it! I know you see how this could piss someone off! Don't act like you don't.

And as for not agreeing, you need to see both sides in order to make an assumption. Because of this, if anyone in this thread wants to know how it is over here, please just ask!

Please don't cuss, that stirs up feelings.

 

Thank You.
I have the luxury of not having all your issues swirling around in my head.
I take my hat off to you, sir.
Respect.
I learnt something from you.
The seemingly total lack of information.
Normal Iraqi people being unaware of our intentions and motivations...must be pretty darn scarey.
But, even here some people remain in the dark and wild accusations have been mad and perceptions have be made in peoples minds.
So, with no information or a plethora of information...I guess it comes down to individual perceptions and prejudices.