now that we have become everything we stand against!

When I asked on the user support forum about brocktoon's banning, the reaction, which was true to the forum guidelines, was: "Questioning why someone was banned is a bannable blah blah blah. we don't need to justify blah blah blah". Then the thread was closed.

the forum guidelines say this:

Banning: People who violate these forum guidelines repeatedly are subject to banning. Once someone has been banned from the site, we don't not allow complaints about it. Once banned, we are done with that individual, and no amount of complaining from other members will help. We don't need to justify our bans. This only causes more work for the moderators. Which is usually the reason for the person being banned in the first place. So those who complain about a banishment, are subject to being banned themselves.

Ok, it might give work for the mods if asking why someone was banned was legal. But now that it's (offcially) illegal, this can give a mod way to much power, beyond what is righteous. We need a discussion, a free-speech and public discussion, on the role of the mods, on banning, and on this point in the forum guidelines. My opinion is that we shouldn't start an 'underground revolution thingy' but an honoust discussion about this forum being free speech.

Brocktoon was argressive in his discussions, yes, but that's nothing compared to other things that can be read in here. And by the way, if a christian can't speak freely on the forum of his own religion, the christianity forum, then I wonder what the meaning still is of
the 'Hip Forums - 400+ Free Speech Forums' (www.hipforums.com)
or
'Welcome To Hippyland!
AN ANTI-WAR FREE SPEECH SITE
Speak your mind here, without fear. (www.hippy.com)

 

And let us not say things like "I might get banned for this post" or "if I will be banned, you know what the cause of it was" or something like that. Though there's truth in saying that, let us hold on to the hope that the moderators, in the whole hierarchy of mods, will take this discussion seriously, and respond in a loving and thoughtful way. Sure, they can defend their opinions, or the forum guidelines, we should listen to what they have to say, it might be worth it. Let us hope they'll say anything.

At least, that's my opinion.

 

I've been invited back to this forum to post my support for this effort. I left this forum due to poor moderation decisions, and I see that it's still happening.

There is a diffrence between insulting someone, and freedom of speech. The only problem is that the powers that be on this site don't seem to be able to tell the diffrence.

You have members such as bug_man running around insulting people all the time, getting banned (after a very long time), then being invited back.. not because he was a changed poster, but because he pestered the moderation until they gave it. It was advertised that he agreeded to change his posting habits, but this did not happen, and so (from what I understand) he's been banned again... lets hope the ban sticks this time.

And yet I'm hearing of innocent posters being banned for no reason. I might not agree with what these people have to say, but i respect their right to say it... call yourself a free speech site... pull the other one.

The way this site is run needs to be changed, or you're going to lose more and more members... then it'll be nothing more than all the mods seeing who can ban who the quickest.

LOL, since when? did the person who let bug_man back in lose his copy of the memo or something? This is a joke... if someone is to be banned, the least the mods can do is explain why. both to the person that was banned, and to everyone else so they don't make the same mistake (if indeed it was justified in the first place).

 

Bring back Brocktoon... I wasn't finished with him yet...

 

VERY well put! You deserve a standing ovation!

 

hmm...I don't know the specifics about why anyone we are speaking of was banned, but I do know that Brocktoon had a habit of pointlessly insulting anyone who disagreed with his posts (bigot was a favorite word of his). And I'm sure he was warned before being banned. Do all of us have to be warned before a paticular member is banned just so it wont seem so sudden? I'm sure the moderators and banned member know more about it than any of us, and I respect Skip and trust his judgement when it comes to picking moderators, and banning members.

With so many people on these forums it is going to be diffucult to be consistent, but should Skip just scrap the forums because of it? I certainly don't think so.

And there is a huge difference, in my opinion, between practicing free speech and trolling around forums to pointlessly antagonize people in your spare time. I have a right to express my opinion freely, but that doesn't give me the right to be disrespectful and insulting to others while I am here.

 

Sera Michelle... the discussion and complaints here aren't so much about wrong banning desiscions or whatever.. but about the openness. There is often no explanation why and (good) arguments pro banning (bug man) or contra banning (willpower) aren't even heard and can even get you banned! Yes, you can get banned for standing up for someone that is banned. Also, the banning seems to be done very random.. without them needing to clarify anything and we not being allowed to ask, this feels even more random.

Than there is also the issue of closing threads, again, with no explanation. When ask for one the answer is often 'no time'. I gave my opinion about that in the sticky in Random Throughts.. which is about the same discussion.

I'd like to refer readers of this thread to that discussion as well, since it has a lot of paralels:

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59614

Xaosflux responded here as well!

 

Ok folks.. to keep everyone on track I'm gonna copy/paste Xaosflux post and my reply here:

 

it's a complex issue.

*sigh* the one nice thing about Total Chaos is at least it's simple!

 

I just urge anyone who doesnt like how this site is run to go find another site that is so leniant on free speech.

 

Or better yet, START their own forum, and when they attract as many people as this one does, they can tell us the secret of effectively moderating something this large without pissing anybody off....

 

For the record.. noone said this forum isn't ok. In fact.. with so many people it's an amazing community.. that doesn't mean that there can't be a discussion about some changes right? There are probably good reasons for not making those changes and is this concept the best it can get.. than that's fine as well.. never hurts to try making things better though.. right?

There is a point to the argument that more moderators create more chaos.. but just a few more to deal with specific stuff maybe could help? I've hurt mods complain about the pressure, the constant complaining, the lack of time.. so I'm sure they'd like to see some positive changes as well?

Just thinking.. why can you get banned for asking about a banned person, but not being subject to banning for harrasing a mod about other stuff, like sig. pics or sth? I don't know how often they have to deal with the same people whining so.. I dunno.. just wondering.

 

The major problem in the past has not so much been people ASKING why somebody has been banned, but the banned individuals using email to other members or registering new screennames to "stir up sympathy" and create posts DEMANDING that they be unbanned, giving the illusion of "grassroots support".

Even the biggest trolls on here seem to attract a core of boot-licking "followers" who proceed to bitch that a banned member should be reinstated because they were "funny", or whatever. These individuals then proceed to stir up the rest of their "clique", and entire forums turn into one huge piss-and-moan parade.

THESE are the reasons that complaints about banned members are not allowed.

 

ok, thanx for the explanation. It's nice to know that/

Please remember that, as far as I know, people on this thread, who don't agree with the situation as it is now, love these forums, like being here, and think the mods do a good job in keeping this forum nice and habitable. But because we love it, we want it to be beter, to give advice, to be listened to when they have some comments ideas or positive critics.

I can understand that there always will be someone that is pissed off. We know that you can't please everyone. but you're reacting on the opinions in this thread, thanx for that, I hope that there will be a discussion, a good talk now, so that we at least can try to understand each other.

You're doing a good job to keep this place running! We only wish to see it even better!

 

That seems downright petty. Christians routinely receive far more severe verbal abuse here, without anyone batting an eye. I don't get very worked up about it, but it is utterly hypocritical to overlook such anti-CHristian vitriol and then suddenly become hyersensitive about the conduct of an embattled Christian, especially on the "Christianity" forum. It'd be different story if Brocktoon were harrassing people somewhere else like the "Gay" forum.

I don't buy this. It should be pretty obvious if a bunch of brand new members/guests start complaining. I don't see why longtime members shouldn't be able to freely question why someone has been banned. At the very least, people should be warned publicly before being banned, so that everyone can witness and learn from the situation.

 

What does my comment have to do with him being christian? He has been all over these forums, in the agnostic forums, political forums, not just the christian forums.

 

Whatever anyone says about brocktoon, this shouldn't be something between christians and mods (though maybe it has sometimes been like this) but about all the people.

 

You implied that was rightly banned for calling people bigots. From what I've seen, anti-Christian bigotry pervades these forums, so his use of the term might well have been warranted. If this is actually what got him banned, then I think it reeks of a blatant double-standard.

 

Hey people.. come on.. let's not make this a christian thing.. 'cause it isn't. I think Xaosflux pointed out somewhere that it will be hard to find a similar freespeech/openminded forum.. if you want to be totally 'amongst your own' start of find a complete closed-off christian forum.. but untill then you are gonna get into heated debates here with non-christians. I didn't like Brocktoon from the posts I read.. he has views that I strongly disagree with and I feel sad that there are people out there that share his views. However, that is not a reason to be banned. In this particular case I think the reason was that he called people 'bigots' without a good reason.. if someone non-christian would do that, he'd get the same treatment. If you see someone like that who isn't getting a warning or a ban, just approach a mod about it. No problem.