Not Having Prices Keeps Communism From Working?

Isn't this one of the fundamental problems as to why communism has failed? People blame the U.S embargo for all shortages in Cuba for example but a lack of a market price system is more likely to contribute to shortages in Cuba like it did in other communist nations.

 

My life partner is Cuban and both of her parents were born and raised in cuba. The problem with Cuba IS communism. As long as there are money and power hungry people in "office" communism will not work.

 

Well there you have it. The problem is not Communism in Cuba, the problem is the money and power hungry rulers of a so-called communist society. Sure they wave the flag and use the label, but are they truly communist or merely a dictatorship donning a less-bitter candy coating?

I'd say Communism has yet to fail for the sake we have yet to really see an actual example of it.

Maybe after Globalism and the Singularity come to pass and Government is taken over by machines,,, :cheers2:

 

I challenge anyone to point to one single real world example of true communism being practiced as a form of government in any society (I'd make the same argument for socialism) and any point in human history. And what is true communism? Marx couldn't define it - he called it a historical process. If we go with the popular definition that all property and means of production belongs to the commons, then true communism cannot exist, because it presumes that no single individual will hold his/her self interests above another - I don't think we've evolved far enough as a species to be capable of it. I can't find five people who are capable of it - can you? I know I'm capable of it, because I do it everyday - and even my most like-minded friends think I'm an absolute fool. I've seen a few rare examples of couples and small families who were able to do it and it's a beautiful thing to behold - but all too often it is transient.

 

Well lets just say it's both communism and dictatorship. Communism is bad economics. You can't get around that.


Look at Cuba's recent food reforms:

 

This is mostly true, but nomadic tribes were communist. The hunters and gatherers fed all tribe members, even those who were unable to 'contribute' themselves. All goods were distributed equally or as needed with equal access. Agricultural society spawned ownership of property, thenceforth value was assigned to property and labor.

 

Communism tends to fail because they exterminate the most productive elements of any society they conquer. Killing off 10-25% of your population in anti-reactionary purges and choosing your leaders by their idealogical purity is no way to run a country.

 

But again, is that really so much a Communist trait or the actions of a rebel group with it's own ideologies wanting to gain support of the Prol's and calling themselves Communists to do so? The Wolf in Sheeps clothing so to speak. Commie flavored facisim,,,

 

You're really over thinking this.

When ever communism takes hold it always goes down the same way, it's like their beliefs were never intended to be taken at face value by those that preach it. It's not supposed to work as intended, it's just a way to gain power.

If you start of with the assumption that all of communism's ideals are preached in bad faith, things start to make a lot more sense. Nothing they say is meant to be taken at face value, it's just a means of gaining supporters.

They want to take control over a country and kill off all intermediate groups between Party officials and the working poor, and class warfare and pie in the sky utopianism is how they do it.

 

Thats exactly what I'm saying with the exception that you seem to think Communism has ever taken hold anywhere (In a modern culture / non-nomadic that is. ) So far it's just been a facade of communism being used to dupe the masses.

 

You're missing my point. It was always meant to be a facade and nothing more.

The old routine that communism has never been really tried and that all of the communists of the past were really rogue rebel groups who misused it, has been parroted for almost 100 years. And it will be parroted for 500 more because it's one big bait and switch and will never be anything else.

 

Yep. Like I said earlier, I think once (if) we reach the point of singularity and machines end up running things,,, thats about the only point it could really work without corruption,,, provided of course the machines in charge weren't too human in their design.

 

Well maybe nomadic/indigenous peoples had elements of both capitalism and communism. For example I'am a little more familiar with indigenous African cultures in relation to this. Many African cultures did have communal practices but they also had practices closer to capitalism.

Free trade was a feature of many African societies. The value of goods being traded was determined by bargaining and not by any type of price controls coming from kings or chiefs. I don't think any indigenous peoples had central planners for their societies.

Owning private property was common among indigenous Africans. There were also wealth differences. For example in many indigenous societies wealth was measured by cattle ownership. Those who owned the most cattle would be viewed as more wealthy than those who owned less. Now Indigenous Africans would help their neighbors if they needed aid so people did help each other when they saw the need for that.

Thinking that indigenous people were soley "communist" is what motivated too many people to adopt communism. But they failed to see the capitalist elements that also existed among nomadic/indigenous peoples.

 

I think that communism is a good ideal, but you can't just tare down the system and expect something better to crop up in its place. On the other hand, the Marxist dialectic that's been used to argue it for so long is flawed. The human spirit has to be evolved for communism and altruism to work. This comes through self transformation, not systematic transformation. What matters is how we treat one another on a daily level. When you place blame on "the system", you're really just blaming everyone and everything but yourself.

Environment can allow people to be more civil. However, when you don't have the social consequences or perceived social consequences in place, what will get people to act good? When the power goes out and the system crumbles, what keeps people from looting, killing and cannibalizing? Its the state of their soul. Its what gets people to spread peace and love even when there's no personal gain for them.

I do believe in a certain amount of social safety netting and structure though, because I really don't want to have to guard my property and life with an AK like people in some of the more impoverished African countries have to do.