None of it matters :)

Religion
Science
Money (obviously)
Materials (obviously)
POLITICS!!
School
Jobs
Cell Phones
Fact
Fiction

It's all really really pointless and has nothing to do with life.
ok so whats making me say this is I went to Yellowstone this month, and I just got this wierd realization of how irrelevant everything is (especially religion) ..you're just out there, with the mountains and snow and hot springs and animals. And if I took away those roads, there would be no boundaries. Instead of standing near a road, I'd be standing on the edge of the earth, and anywhere could be my path. And it was like this... for 13 billion years... until we came. People do become facinated with things (for me, science) but why? Who cares? you're just there.

just a random blah there.

 

It gets rather dull to just be "there" after a while. Yes, nature is beautiful, and important, but Love is the most important, imo. Nature by itself knows neither love nor hate...it just is. Some would say this is better because hate is so bad, it's better to be indifferent. But I think that Love is so grand, you must have both. Ultimately, I think whatever gives people a sense of Joy (not just happiness, but real joy) is what has meaning in this world. It may be all subjective, but it's still real.

 

yes, I agree both are the best things. I wasn't nessecarily saying tht nature is the answer, but being in nature can show you alot.
Love is a human emotion, we have thought, knowledge, imagination, so it's hard to say what we should and shouldn't be doing and feeling.

 

When you were standing out in nature how did you feel?

Religion is how you perceive it. it does not have to make sense to others, just you.

 

I don't believe that love is just another human emotion. I don't think it's human at all. The cheesy, romantic, butterfly-in-your-stomach kind, maybe, but that's not real love. Real love is way too much work and way too intense for most people to handle.

 

to truely love, is to be free..unconditional love, means there are no limits, no conditions, total freedom, total love..much love

 

duuude
you wrote what exactly i think sometimes!
just how irrelevant stuff is. i was sitting in maths class we were doing algebra, and i was like maaaan this is so pointless ! it actually makes nooo difference to anything and im never gona use it lol, and just like sitting in the sun sometimes, thinking how cuaght up people are in their jobs and making money and buying stupid shit, in the long run in dosnt matter at allll, but they dont realise and just sitting here typing this its lush and sunny outside. why am i on the internet. its maddd.

 

I just want to point out that this is not quite true. Human beings did not just 'show up' and start paving the wilderness. For the vast majority of our existence on this planet, we lived in harmony with nature. The process of disconnecting was a slow one, and it was met with resistance every step of the way.

I'm curious what you find dull about it, and why you feel that being at one with nature precludes feelings of love and hate.

Most of you are absolutely correct though. None of the things mentioned in this thread- religion, science, money, politics, school, jobs, math class- exist to fulfill any human need or desire, but to improve the functionality of this machine culture, and to help solve problems that the machines themselves created.

 

Strawberry Fields- It just occurred to me that maybe your perceiving nature in the wrong way. Have you ever heard of Guy Debord? He often referred to the modern world as the "society of the spectacle", and talked about how instead of experiencing life directly, we've become passive consumers of images representing life. So perhaps if you were to view the wilderness as a conscious entity to engage in a relationship with, as our ancestors saw the world, instead of just some pretty landscapes to take in, your next experience will be more fulfilling.

 

I meant love as in the whole general thing. anything that is stronger than 'liking' I am saying love to be (for this example)

 

maybe I should have said the white man? (in the americas)
because thats kind of more of what I meant.

 

Sadly true. But we all share the same roots as hunter gatherer peoples, and phsyiologically, we're still more or less the same critters as those of a million years ago. We all face the same choice of whether to continue down the path of technology and dominion of nature, or to return to this state of oneness. It will present challenges the likes of which our species has never faced before, but there's a growing movement towards rewilding, and critique of civilization and technology is stronger and more widely accepted than ever. I'm pretty optimistic, for a pessimist.

 

heh, I'm really pessimistic about it all.

I know what you mean. People say we're getting smarter and that our ancestors are dumb, but we're just a product of build-up.
what do you mean by 'state of oneness'? how has our society destroyed that?

hah, I have wild optimist/pessimist mood swings. but I'm always pessimistic about the state of the technology and society etc. Where on earth do you see this "growing movement towards rewilding"?

 

I would also like to know this.

 

Modern humans perceive wild nature as an 'other', or as 'alien', something outside himself. This 'other'is to be dominated and exploited to human utility. This is why the modern environmental movement will never be successful, because even the word 'environment' itself, which basically means ones surroundings, implies alienation from nature. Our ancient ancestors, on the other hand did not see themselves as separate or dominant over nature, but saw the world as a comprehensive whole of which they were an integral part.

The process of disconnection was a gradual one, met with resistance every step of the way. As the momentum of civilization grew, it must have felt like a losing battle, but we've reached a point where the consequences are so dire that many people are starting to ask questions. From the early works of Sigmund Freud to Derrick Jensen and John Zerzan today, many people are making the call to reject modernity and civilization and return to a state of wild freedom and their ideas are finally gaining acceptance. Gatherings to share wilderness survival skills are getting popular, and actions by groups like ELF/ALF are getting more frequent and more intense. These ideas are still met with a lot of hostility by the grumpy old white men on the right and left, but their gaining momentum.

 

You need to get a cat.

 

I'd say fact and fiction are both pretty important things, but then I've got someone spreading false lies about me.
Science and Algebra? Well, Amercians are pretty dumb and that's known across the world, and their kids are getting dumber with each generation and have a huge ignorance of science compared to the rest of the world. And I've seen it hurt us.
A lot of my customers wanting organic products have taken a dislike to a substance known as Sodium Laurel Sulfate. There's something bad about it.
So some companies replaced it with Sodium Laureth Sulfate, which isn't so bad.
but these chemistry-ignorant people don't get the difference.
and now they want to know what alkaline water means? *sigh* I've always said a basic knowledge of chemistry is needed...we use it every day from cooking to laundry to cleaning ourselves.
but the US is heading to be a mostly third-world nation

 

Never heard of Guy Debord, but I have read John Zerzan and Derrick Jensen. They have a lot of really good points, but I don't agree that nature is a conscious entity, nor do I think you have to believe that in order to care about the environment.

I believe there is something bigger than nature, in the same way that there is something bigger than humans. I cannot think of nature as an entity, because it has no love. Nor does it have hate, mind you, but as I said, I would rather live with both love and hate than with neither one at all.

Also, our relationship with nature seems to be rather one sided. You can care about nature all you want, but when a tornado hits, or a tsunami kills your family, or Katrina levels your neighborhood, Nature isn't going to spare you because you care about it. Nor will nature turn around and rescue you. If anyone is going to help you rebuild your life after nature destroys it, it will be other humans. If your crops fail, your neighbors might feed you. If it's 30 below, another person might give you their jacket. If a flood destroys your home, another family might take you in.

I say "might" because of course, people don't always take care of each other the way they should. But when we do care for each other (and it DOES happen a lot more often than the media would have you believe) that is an example of Love, which does not exist in nature as a whole.

I guess I just have a lot more faith in humanity than most people do. I think people tend to focus on the bad and the evil in the world because it's easier. But that's kind of a cop-out. Anybody can find examples of fucked up people and situations, but in doing so, you are giving them too much of your energy and attention. I think it's much more nobler to dig past the rough to find the diamond. Focus on the good in people, it exists in nearly everyone, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

you should really read Into The Wild by Jon Krakauer..most people have only seen the movie. I really recommend it, it completely enlightened me and gave me the same realization as you. <3

 

Yeah, I'm one of those people who only saw the movie. I saw that when I was like, 13 or 14... way before I even became interested in the hippie values etc. and the whole time I was thinking 'I wanna do that!'

is it complicated? because I'd really like to read it but I have cruddy reading comprehension