Noam Chomski: Antifa Is A Gift To The Right

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fueled by Coffee, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Messages:
    10,378
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Mic drop
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,778
    Likes Received:
    13,798
    Round and round and round we go.
    Let's look at the arguments presented so far to persuade us that everyone in any way connected with the antifa movement is an evil fascist, worse or at least no better, than the KKK and Nazis:

    If one person commits a violent action everyone is guilty - Ill-Founded Generalization
    Either antfa is a hate group or it isn't - False Dilemma
    If antifa members are present when violence starts, they caused the violence - Confusing Association with Casusation
    Antifa are the same as fascist - False Continuum
    If not all antifa protesters are violent, then they can't be true antifa protesters - No True Scotsman
    Antifa are fascist, Antifa are fascist, Antifa are fascist, Antifa are fascist - Argument from Repetition
    If Antifa was at a protest and there was violence, only antifa caused it - Single Cause Fallacy
    Antifa only initiates violence and does nothing beneficial - Cherry Picking

    And there may be more but that's enough for now.
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,778
    Likes Received:
    13,798
    So now they're both fascist and communists! I thought those two ideologies were mutually opposite.
     
  4. Noserider

    Noserider Goofy-Footed Member

    Messages:
    9,578
    Likes Received:
    6,215
    This thread is pretty much for the lulz at this point.
     
  5. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Messages:
    33,922
    Likes Received:
    2,454
    That's what the education system teaches, but I see no difference as both are oppressive and totalitarian. Besides, Hitler was a socialist and a fascist. The only difference is that socialism works more incrementally. The outcome of socialism and fascism are the same. Basically fascism arises out of socialism. Fascism can only exist with a centralized, authoritarian government.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,778
    Likes Received:
    13,798
    Hitler was not a socialist. Socialism is class based. Neither was he a communist.

     
  7. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Messages:
    10,378
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    1. You don't have to look far to know that more than 1 Antifa member has committed a violent crime
    2. It is a hate group. Everyone to the right of Lena Dunham is a sub-human in their mind.
    3. There was only one incident in recent history where it's DEBATABLE whether or not it was Antifa or NeoNazis who threw the first blow. All the rest has been Antifa.
    4. No two fascists agree on everything. There are forms of left and right wing fascist totalitarianism.
    5. Not sure who made that claim. But that's like saying "not all white supremacists are bad; only the ones who act out their racism on someone else."
    6. Yes and it's the truth.
    7. Again, there was only one incident in recent history where it's DEBATABLE whether or not it was Antifa or NeoNazis who threw the first blow. But at this point I don't care who did. The city council and the police department willfully allowed it to happen.
    8. What has antifa done good? Aside from assault people you don't like?
     
  8. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Messages:
    10,378
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Both sides mutually opposite?

    Think again:

    [​IMG]

    I won't even mention PolPot's genocide, Castro's imprisonment and murder of homosexuals, Mao and all the horrible things he stands for, and everything wrong with North Korea.

    Tell me more how opposite commies are from fascists nazis.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Messages:
    10,378
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    "We are Socialists, we are enemies of the capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, rights its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." -Hitler
     
  10. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    Balls


    Oh I see, in your opinion there were no white racists in the US until BLM was formed – hey you know I’ve got this bridge in Brooklyn I could get you a good deal on.
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    6



    Oh you ‘disagree’ with white nationalist – the kind of people that would wish to remove the rights and even the lives of those they see as inferior, I disagree with the people that littering I find racist bigots views abhorrent.

    And you place them in the same category as communists many of whom are peaceful and social justice warriors which seem to you to be anyone that doesn’t like people making racist jokes.

    It makes me think you don’t see Nazis and the KKK as all that bad.
     
  12. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    6

    Oh the same MO – Since Stalin was a 'communist' ALL communists are Stalinists

    For fuck sake man why do you constantly peddle this crap?
     
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    https://www.hipforums.com/forum/topic/100079-why-do-the-national-libertarians-keep-reminding-me-of-the-nazis/

    I wrote a post some 12 years ago about how I saw connections between what I called then the ‘national libertarians’ and the Nazis.

    One part of that argument was that just as the Nazis ‘bastardised’ socialism to extend its appeal the national libertarians seemed to be bastardising libertarian ideas to extend its appeal.

    Hitler talked of helping people – he said he would make Germany great again, get people back to work, promised to upgrade Germans infrastructure, give people access to good healthcare and many other ‘socialist’ ideas - but do you notice it was the same kind of things that the ‘right wing’ Trump was offering in his campaign.

    It’s about power, seeking power and the undercurrent – when Hitler talked of his people, his folk, he was talking about helping the ‘good’ white Aryans his plans for the ‘inferior’ races was rather different.
     
  14. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    Messages:
    10,378
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    LOL

    You're funny

    Neither communism nor white supremacy can be conducted peacefully.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,152
    Likes Received:
    2,672
    6



    Thank you but I’m sure I’m not the only one that noticed you didn’t address what I said.


    ‘Communism is a socio-economic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production. It encourages the formation of a proletarian state in order to overcome the class structures and alienation of labour that characterize capitalistic societies, and their legacy of imperialism and nationalism. Communism holds that the only way to solve these problems is for the working class (or proletariat) to replace the wealthy ruling class (or bourgeoisie), through revolutionary action, in order to establish a peaceful, free society, without classes or government’

    BUT ideologies like the Nazis, kkk and white supremacy are ALWAYS violent because they are based on the idea of the persecution of the ‘inferior’.

    To me communism is utopian in thinking (and to me idealistic but unrealistic) a racist regime would be distopian for all that were deemed inferior.
     
  16. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Messages:
    33,922
    Likes Received:
    2,454
    Here's the thing. White supremacists have no credibility whatsoever. There are a very, very small number of people in this country who would identify with a group like the KKK or any "white power" type of group. Probably a few thousand at best. The media blows it out of proportion and makes it appear like these people are taking over or something, when really it's just a small number of losers with no power and no real influence to do anything.

    The left wing groups, however, come in much greater numbers and have greater influence as they have more backing from the state, academia, and people like George Soros, who merely uses these useful idiots to create chaos and push for the evisceration of free speech. The left want to outlaw words and inanimate objects, and the state is more than eager to do this because it results in more control over the masses for them. Things are going in the direction of Orwell's 1984, and the left seems to be mostly in support of this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Messages:
    33,922
    Likes Received:
    2,454
    Geez, I guess millions upon millions of people didn't lose their lives under Communism after all.
     
  18. Beach Ball Lady Balls

    Beach Ball Lady Balls Banned

    Messages:
    3,255
    Likes Received:
    1,821
    That seems to be something people fail to acknowledge, the numbers who died, but are well aware. Just disregard history, change it, ignore it, remove it. Don't learn for it! Pretend to be peace loving people out for the supposed greater good. Communism has only killed 100 million people, let's give it another try!

    And some will say you are drawing attention to this is blowing it out of proportion! In other words telling you to ignore history while people are ciurrently beaten, financially destroyed, killed, etc. Nooo, nothing to be concerned about as numbers grow and people on the left defend antifa, hence side with them. The left side is turning alt left. Over 15000 people joined antifa in 3 days after trump was elected and that number continues to grow. No worries
     
  19. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

    Messages:
    25,868
    Likes Received:
    18,279
    "The left"

    Dont you think you are doing what you are accusing others of doing, that is blowing it out of proportion? Do you really think there are more than a few thousand antifa members or that the majority of people who identify on the left side of the spectrum are extremists rather than normal people with moderate views?
     
    2 people like this.
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    19,778
    Likes Received:
    13,798
    So what we have here is a failure to differentiate.

    On the one side we have those who think that any act of violence that is conducted is fascist in nature.
    So that would include Communism, Democracies, Republics, etc. If they commit a violent act, they are ipso facto fascist.
    And...the more violent, the more fascist they are, and we see pictures of piles of dead people. So by that reasoning the Aztecs, the Athenians, the Albigensian Crusade, Leopold II of Belgium, etc., etc. were all fascists.

    Then on the other siude we have those who can make a reasonable distinction between different forms of government. IMHO

    Next we have those who denounce their own government and all academics en masse. Any one who doesn't agree with them is obviously not aware of the true facts, which never seem to be listed.
    For example:
    We see nothing to back this up, but I can cite a recent poll that claims otherwise,
    Over 22 million people.
    Now this may be off by a million or so, but it's a far cry from the "probably a few thousand" guess made with no data at all.

    Then we have statements like the left wants to take away free speech, create chaos, outlaw unspecified words, outlaw unspecified inanimate objects (as if some aren't outlawed now), and the left wants an Orwellian country.
    All without any data to back these claims up.

    And there is the statement that people are telling us to ignore history and that communism is impossible without violence made due to the failure to understand that communism, like anti fascist resistance, takes many forms thus disregarding communists such as the Essenes, the Diggers, etc.

    And lastly there is the failure to understand what logical fallacies are and the continued attempt to sway people by rhetorical arguments having no factual bases at all.
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice