Nietzsche, Orwell, Huxley, Rand

Friedrich Nietzsche, George Orwell, Alduous Huxley, Ayn Rand

It seems to me that Western culture has devolved into a state that has been anticipated by the above literary artists/philosophers.

The rabble seems to have become the "last man" of which Zarathustra spoke.

Our advances in technology seem to be utilized more for keeping tabs on all these animals than for any other more constructive purpose -- as in Orwell's 1984.

In Huxley's Brave New World the populace is medicated into a state of apathetic pseudohappiness, quite reminiscent of today's pharmaceutical trends.

And governments seem to be run primarily by parasitic political pressure groups, a trend which Rand started pointing out in various discussions at least as early as the sixties.

Comments?

 

It takes all kinds.

 

the existence of these people does not make reality any less diverse.
nor can guns or bribery do so.
humans can be bribed or intimidated, but there is a very big universe out there, much bigger then all of us, and everything we believe and not believe, that is not affected by our being so.

none of these piople mentioned pioneered awareness that political processees are seldom accurately what they claimed to be. the average roman citizen would have been just as aware of this, or citizen of mohenjp daro, or even pre-urban villagers and hunter-gatherers.

 

Actually, Nietzsche tried to point out such pitfalls; but Nietzsche is little comprehended, and his greatest discreditors have often been his self-appointed interpretors. Everytime I read him I understand something new, and discard a misconception.

I just thought it was interesting how prophetic certain ideas of these individuals turned out to be.

 

I know the writer Terry Goodkind was influence by Rand. That's probably as close as I ever got to reading any of her writings, then I think Goodkind was against what Rand believed.

Nor surprisingly, we never touched much on them even in Philosophy class. Sad, really.

 

I'm in accord with most of Rand's views on civil liberties, but little else.

 

What technology is utilised in keeping tabs?
What technology is utilised in getting getting a passenger jet up in the air and keeping it there or a space shuttle getting to the International space station?
Are our every movements monitored? Is somebody watching me type this post out right this minute?
How come my TV is off?

What are the pharmaceutical trends?

What parasitic political pressure groups are you referring to?

 

1984 was written in 1948, so he just switched the last two numbers around, clever stuff

The concept was a winner at the time, but the actual book, the writing style is slightly above average compared to some real literary giants.

Even with the concept of the book, what is the cliffhanger?, that ones own survival instinct trumps love, no shit

Nietzche like Sigmund Frued and Che Guevara. Have all become victims of the way their own "fans" have muted the message over time. In that as soon as you hear someone quote Nietzsche whilst wearing a Guevara T shirt its "Oh, you are doing a Bachelor of Arts are you? That'll be money well spent. Or refrence Freud "Oh, first year Psychology huh?"

 

Smart phones. internet use. Internet searches. I'm a little suspicious of my xbox kinect . That's just me being silly but I keep it unplugged anyway

Mood altering drugs are definitely overprescribed.

I'm not sure if writers are prophetic or if history merely repeats itself frequently enough to be correct throughout generations.

 

well, dystopian (1984) utopian or anti-utopian/utopian satire (Brave New World) only function through historical and contemporary extrapolation, certain trends have simply continued.

but you're certainly picking and choosing the manners in which huxley and orwell got it right. after all, it is only by dong so that you can claim that they both "got it right" since their visions of the future are entirely at odds with each other, with 1984 being a dystopia designed to both critique and warn against the new direction of the English socialist movement (called ingsoc, in the book) and of the dangers of state socialism, Whereas brave new world is a utopian satire/anti-utopia designed to parody the capitalist consumer culture and moral bankrupcy of california in the 1930's, and to speculate on the possibilities of tissue culture. you can only claim that the books BOTH anticipated the present by ignoring the meat of both of them, since the two texts are largely incompatible.

 

'They' could be but I've only noticed people are watched that are on the radar already. 99.9% of people are not watched all of the time. Are our every movements monitored? I'd say no.

I asked: What technology is utilised in keeping tabs?
...so that it could be compared to the technology that isn't.
Do our advances in technology seem to be utilized more for keeping tabs...I'd say no.

This might be true in certain parts of the world.

I'd say there is a fragment of truth - but only a fragment.

 

i don't think it's surprising that a few writers/philosophers from the past have somewhat accurately predicted the future, since there were many, many more that were completely wrong.

 

I think technology is harnessed more in the business world than by government to keep tabs. for example, I read that credit agencies can data mine from google and factor your internet searches into your credit score when applicable. Insurance companies can do this too - if you constantly google different diseases they may find that you're a higher insurance risk. I don't know to what extent this is done, however.

I do think government certainly has the power obtain detailed information from our phones and our computers. I don't know what they would really do with that information for the average citizen. Obviously, someone who googles "how to make a bomb" might not escape notice but I doubt very seriously that the government cares what new disease the average hypochondriac is googling this week, or what kind of porn the average internet user watches.

 

Marketers would like to inform every impulse you have.

 

I hadn't heard about credit agencies data mining Google (etc). I'm not quite sure how that is done with out getting information from your ISP. I would have thought they caught you out by sticking to precisely what you provide to them, and adding in 'acts of of God', to prevent them paying out. There fine print is astronomical.

They do have the power to but I very much doubt they do. I agree - they don't care.

So, what are you really worried about?

 

I am on a GPS monitor right now with which the State has straddled me. Example of my point about Orwell.

People in America are particularly over-medicated for psychiatric disorders. Example of my point about Huxley.

My current situation, which you can read about in the politics forum under a post about the Violence Against Women Act, is as much a result of the government over-reaching to mollify hardline feminist groups as it is the result of my and my wife's errors in judgement. I am not taking a side against feminism, so much as pointing out that they have moved past equal rights to the point of setting up a system whereby they can use the laws in place to persecute innocents, and I even go so far as to compare it to the Salem Witch Trials of 1692, which is an excellent precursory example of why the founding fathers of our society saw fit to seperate church and state. Rand believed the Bill of Rights was an excellent base for a free society, and I agree with her.

As for Nietzche's last man: Homer Simpson may be the most popular fictional character in the world. D'oh!

 

The GPS system - seriously? Is that the peak of technology? Everybody is being located and monitored via GPS? Go back and read your first comment, and then see how poor this response is.

I don't think you put any thought into this further than your OP. These are terrible e.gs / explanations. Really bad.

 

I admit I'm not trying very hard here. This post was a quick hitter, so to speak; but it seems others have given some good examples, and it has stimulated some thought, even if not so much in me.

And no, the GPS thing in itself is not the peak of technology, but I wasn't trying to point out Orwell's foreseeing technology's peak, but rather the way in which it would be utilized by the state to monitor its citizens. Believe me, this thing, which costs me twelve dollars a day, doesn't even pick up signal as good as my four-year-old cell-phone.

The feminist, gun-control, gun, corporate, religious lobbyist movements (among many others) are perfect examples of how America is going to hell in a handbasket a la Ayn Rand. I felt that was pretty good. The willingness of politicians to over-reach to the point of subverting basic civil liberties so as to pander to whoever speaks up the loudest marks them as having very little grasp of or very little care for the fundamental philosophical principles of the system they are supposed to be perpetuating and protecting. Of course in a democracy, and Rand points this out, it is more the people's responsibility to motivate the politicians, and maybe that plays somewhat into Nietzsche's last man.

To be a little more specific about the over-medication, it is striking that people are even willing to medicate children for any so-called disorder that doesn't make them a threat to other children or isn;t a threat to their own life. The ADHD thing seems more like a result of pharmaceutical kickbacks and overburdened teachers than any problem children -- who are naturally both hyper and inattentive to anything unpleasant -- would actually have.

Nietzsche's last man is a little harder to qualify, only because Nietzsche is so difficult to paraphrase. Homer Simpson as a well-recieved and even likable pop culture character is an indication of this trend, though, I think; which is hilarious considering that it is probably Matt Groening's way of making fun of American laziness and complacency. TV is something Nietzsche didn't anticipate, but it's up for debate whether its done more harm than good in this respect.

Like I said, I'm not reaching too far with this, just wanted to stimulate some discussion. My observations weren't meant to be the basis of a fucking thesis, man!

 

Likewise, as far as technology being used to keep tabs, it's unlikely that the government would tip their hand too much about it. People act differently when they know someone's watching. The Patriot Act does allow them to monitor our reading habits via the library, and to randomly tap anybody's phone under the pretense they may be involved with terrorism, though of course they'll always argue it wasn't pretense. Look up COINTELPRO. That happened decades ago. Interesting reading.

 

You said: Our advances in technology seem to be utilized more for keeping tabs on all these animals than for any other more constructive purpose -- as in Orwell's 1984

Is our technology used more for keeping tabs or not?
That is what you were supposed to be exemplafying.
Given the technology out there for other purposes - I'd say that was way off the mark.
Infact, to be harsh, absolutely ridiculous.
1984 was in some respects satire, and a reflection of a surveillance society in certain parts of the world - transposed to more familiar environments.
It wasn't really a look forward but a look at the state of the world in which he lived - albeit a slightly hysterical look.
Undoubtedly we live in a more surveillanced society - akin to '1984'? Absolutely not.

You said: And governments seem to be run primarily by parasitic political pressure groups, a trend which Rand started pointing out in various discussions at least as early as the sixties.

Do you not think there were unregulated lobby groups and monied people putting undue pressure on congress (for e.g) prior to the sixties?
Is it any worse? I have no idea. Is it any better? I have no idea.
You talk about governments rather a government.
It's all very Americentric.
Do you know anything about other governments around the world?
Do you know how lobby groups (etc) are regulated in the US and in other countries?
All you are doing is giving your opinion of how supposedly things are and attaching an extremely tenuous link to more influential people in history.
How accurate is this e.g? 1 -10, imho.

Giving kids too many ADHD drugs is not quite the same as: the populace is medicated into a state of apathetic pseudohappiness, is it, really?

1 -10 for effort. Must try harder