my basic understanding of god...

tells me that god is everywhere, with everyone. believer and non-believer, christian and non-christian. therefore it's inherently foolish to ignore the wisdom that other peoples have collected over their time on this earth. there is beauty and wisdom in all faiths, even if you may disagree with certain aspects of their practice, it would be foolish to ignore everything they have to say. the sacredness of the earth taught by the animists, the sacredness of sexuality taught by various hindu sects, the importance of critical thinking taught by atheists. it's all worthwhile, listen up.

 

My God tells me that I only need to ask for his wisdom. I don't need to look at other peoples perversions to learn anything. God gave me a brain and I use it. The Holy Spirit helps me make decisions based on God's will in mt life. To me, this is a no brainer. You say listen up, I say pray more.

 

but you're losing out on a whole lot of understanding of your fellow children of god. i pray constantly, more of a constant conversation. i learn something that strikes me a particular wise or profound, i ask god about it. don't limit your options. the strong in faith are never really intimidated by alternate knowledge sources. but perhaps it is not your place or your particular walk to do so. we all have different walks with god, different topics of conversation.

 

mynameiskc, you are truly wise...in the long run all religions are fundimentally the same...they are only different because of different cultures...in the end, its the same God, no matter what you call Him.

 

-Then Jesus was a liar because he claimed He was the only way

 

Amen!!! i'm in total agreement with you!

roly.xxx

 

"in the long run all religions are fundimentally the same...they are only different because of different cultures...in the end, its the same God, no matter what you call Him."

Precisely...

 

mother_nature's_son,

-No other religions have fulfilled prophecies as the Bible does. That is what seperates the Bible from all the rest. Jesus fulfilled all the 300+ prophecies in the old testiment....Which one did He lie on?

 

i definitely believe the in the acts, actions and wisdom of jesus. however, i wouldn't put it past a few apostles to lie and politicize his actions in order to further propagate the message. people always have wanted a bit of magic and certainty. i do, however, still believe in christ's sacrifice for me and cherish it. i also, however, am tremendously grateful for the sacrifices of other loving saints in other cultures and faiths.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what I mean...yes, Jesus, He is His son and He was the saviour...

...but I can't really explain what I meant without getting blasted or digging myself in a deeper hole...

Umm...yes, Jesus is the Son of God...but I wasn't talking about him, I was talking about God, the creator... God has many other names besides Jehova, he is also Krishna, Allah, and many other names...but in the end...isn't it still God...

And, I am a Christian, but I don't really remember Jesus ever saying he was God...just saying...yes He saved us...but I just don't distinctly remember it ever being said by Jesus that He was God...He might just be...but I don't remember him (not any other book of the Bible) say it...

 

The bible fulfills prophecy within itself.

Your argument here holds no weight if Jesus's character was a fabrication-
and there is no way you could prove this not to be true.

An accurate, written account of history does not exist- and cannot exist.

-Science- has exponentially greater amounts of integrity than your storybook.

Science will tell you that, fundamentally, all humans are the same
and culture is what makes this difficult for many of us to see.

Through cultural isolation and human pride, come worldviews such as the one you, campbell, portray.
"I know the truth, and this separates my religion from the rest."

 

the phrase that leads people to believe the jesus was god is the beginning of John in which he says "in the beginning was the Word (jesus). and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God." however, i take this to be the well-intentioned but inherently untrue statement of a man dazzled by his teacher and wanting to propagate his message.


there's a book, Snow Crash, a techno novel, stephen something or other wrote it. but within this really cool action novel dealing with fascinating technological issues, is some truly genius commentary on the infection of the christian message by more mystical religious messages popular long before the advent of the christ.

 

It is true that there is much wisdom throughout all religions and to neglect that wisdom is ones choice, but I choose to expose myself to it. I find it helpful to see what the other children of God believe and I enjoy learning about it. I pray everyday and talk with God frequently. Though many of the organized religions will proclaim itself as the only way thus having its followers focused and believe only one book. Which is fine as long as you allow and critsize others for following a different path.

 

The bible fulfills prophecy within itself.

-No, the Bible predicts future world events that the writers could not of known unless God had told them. Much of the prophecies deal with the world that we are living in today. It even fortells whats going to happen to America.

"Your argument here holds no weight if Jesus's character was a fabrication-and there is no way you could prove this not to be true.

An accurate, written account of history does not exist- and cannot exist."

-Yes it does exist in the Bible and also there are independent writings that verify Biblical events.


"Science- has exponentially greater amounts of integrity than your storybook.

Science will tell you that, fundamentally, all humans are the same
and culture is what makes this difficult for many of us to see."

-The story book that you mention had information that took science thousands of years to learn.


For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.-1 Timothy 4:3,4

You are living proof of this time period

 

The bible is true because it fulfills prophecy that hasn't happened yet? hmmm...

You are going to have to do ALOT better than that my friend.

Can you be serious? Please, give your best example of this.

The bible couldn't even figure out that the Earth is in orbit.

This time period? What this describes has been happening as long as Christianity itself has existed.

Simply replace the term 'sound doctrine' with 'science'.
This 'prophecy' is anything but unique.

Is this the type of 'prophecy' you refer to when you say:
"the Bible predicts future world events that the writers could not of known unless God had told them." ?
...cause if it is, I suggest you find an entirely new approach to defending your faith.

 

Here's a Quick look:

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God... And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. In the first part the passage "In the beginning was the Word" John is eluding to Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created..." but with one difference: Genesis 1:1 starts from the beginning and moves forward in time, while John 1:1 starts from the beginning and moves backward into eternity "In the beginning God created" vs "In the beginning was." So the passage claims that the Word was with God and was God throughout all eternity? John 1:14 further makes it clear that the Word was Jesus: "And the Word became flesh..."
2. One of the clearest claims to divinity is John 8:58 where Jesus replies to the Jews: "before Abraham was born, I AM" which is the same name God gives himself in Exodus 3:14: "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you" I AM being the name from which YAHWEH, (usually written as LORD in the Old Testament) derived. Thus Jesus was equating Himself with that sacred name of God; the Jews recognized the implications of His claim and sought to stone Him the very next verse.
3. The "Son of Man" passages. "Son of Man" referring to "a heir or successor to royaltly," and when given in the context of Daniel 7:13--I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days [Or God] And was presented before Him"--the title has very profound implications. In the very next verse the "Son of Man" is given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. By Jesus using the title "Son of Man" He is equating Himself with the Son of Man metioned in Daniel 7:13, and thus, I believe, making a claim to divinity.
4. Jesus claimed the ability to forgive sin, which is an example of Jesus claiming something that the Jews would have recognized only as a perogative of God.

Obviously, this is only a start, (we could look at the meaning logos (the Word mentioned in John 1:1-2;14) in it's historic philosophical context in comparison with ancient wisdom literature and theology, or both Old and New Testament passages that help to confirm the divinity of Christ and the Trinity, but this would take to much time and space) but what I have presented are just some reasons why I believe Jesus is God.

 

in reference to point number two stated above, here's a point where my ability and lack of fear in studying other philosophies has given me a somewhat liberal understanding of christ using the name "I AM." god is all things, in all things, including all the rest of us humble beings. therefore, we are god, part of the body of god, our souls are pieces of his soul, all one soul in fact. so jesus referring to himself as god isn't merely a reference to the jewish concept of the I AM, but a more universal understanding that jesus had of the true nature of god and his relationship to his children. that of oneness. i think, however, that some of the limited undertanding that his apostles had, being mostly influenced by the jewish paradigm of a seperate patriarchal god clouded their understanding of what christ was really trying to get across with his message, "follow me, i'll show you how to accept your oneness with god."

 

there just isnt enough christians like you these days...excellent thoughts there

 

well, just like i said in another thread, there's quite a few of us out there, we're just pretty quiet, since we usually prefer to listen.

 

mynameiskc,

I have to disagree, but thanks for sharing you point. First, the "I AM" name is one that the Jews understood as the sacred name of a personal higher being that was the creator of all.. I can understand your point: By Christ claiming the "I AM" name He was claiming to be a part of God, and also claiming that we all are also a part of God. But this view can only be correct under certain conditions.

One such conditions is where Christ stood authoritatively. Did Christ claim to possess a higher authority, that is, can His "I AM" proclamation be said to be true only Him, and no others? Did He set Himself higher then any man?

1. As mentioned before He called himself the "Son of Man" which by very implication set himself higher than any man.

2. As also mentioned before, He claimed the ability to forgive sins. This is something that was recognized as something only God could do. (Also, at one point in his ministry, Christ delegates His authority to the apostles [Matthew 10:1; Luke 9:1-2]. In this event the power to forgive sins, IS NOT delegated, indeed this is something that only God possesses. Also, delegation is a sign of authority, in other words, you must first have the authority before you give it. Here the authority is given to the apostles meaning that Christ Himself is higher in authority then they.)

3. John 14:6 records Jesus as claiming to be the only way to the Father. This further sets Christ apart and of higher authority then any man.​

4. In the correct cultural context Jesus' very position as a patron in a patron/client relationship, puts Him at a position of higher authority.

Even with the relatively short list, I believe it's clear that Christ did, in fact set Himself higher in authority then any man. In this context it very unlikely that Christ meant anything else but "I am God" with His "I AM" statement. You mention that the apostles were mostly "influenced by the jewish paradigm of a seperate patriarchal god" but don't forget that Jesus was also a Jew and was influenced by this same paradigm, in fact He presumed it. At any rate, I don't think there's any reason to believe that Christ held to some form of pantheism