More Proof of British Army Abuse In Iraq

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mui, May 8, 2004.

  1. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

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    More 'proof' of British army abuse in Iraq

    Saturday 08 May 2004

    Several pictures printed by the paper, have caused world outcry

    British newspaper The Daily Mirror has published further allegations of British troops abusing Iraqi prisoners.

    The newspaper claims it has further evidence of abuse and on Saturday its front page carried a photograph which apparently shows a soldier photographing a bound captive in the back of an armoured personnel carrier.

    The picture was allegedly provided by another soldier from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, already embroiled in controversy over earlier revelations in the Daily Mirror.

    The paper says it is "damning proof" that soldiers took "trophy photos" of Iraqi prisoners being abused.

    The soldier, named by the paper only as 'Soldier D', told the paper: "There are no rules out there. I saw the man dragged into the vehicle beaten up, kicked and punched. It lasted about a minute. I took the picture as I opened the doors of the vehicle and could see dirt on his shirt and blood on his teeth."

    And he claimed soldiers took photos and video footage to look tough and prove to friends what had happened.

    'All genuine'

    He told the Daily Mirror: "You'd come back from Iraq and people wouldn't know what you've been through. If you had pictures you could show them. While we were out there we were told to get rid of all of them. But if they had done a proper search they would have found CDs and all sorts of things.

    "There was one CD going round our room with about 500 shots on it. Some were before and after pictures of beatings"

    'Soldier D'

    "There was one CD going round our room with about 500 shots on it. Some were before and after pictures of beatings."

    Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan, speaking on Friday, insisted the photographs were all genuine, and represented the tip of the iceberg of abuse in Iraq, which he said was carried out by a small number of soldiers in Basra.

    "I believe we've hit the tip of the icerberg here and there were a network, a small number of people who were committing, frankly, atrocities against POWs and detainees in Basra."

    The fresh allegations came as US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld offered his "deepest apology" to the victims of abuse in Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

    [​IMG] Related:
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  2. charredacacia

    charredacacia Member

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    why is "proof" in quotes everywhere? what? don't trust the media? :D
  3. Guerry

    Guerry Member

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  4. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    This has been in the news for days now. What more "proof" do we need?
  5. Juiceman3000

    Juiceman3000 Banned

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    I gotta say,

    Ive seen the alleged british abuse photos and I do not believe they are real.
    They look faked, but the explanation for why satisfied me.

    The brand new 'out of the package' Iraq t-shirt was pretty suspicious.
    The vehicle they are taken in is not used by Brits in Iraq
    The weapons they are holding are not issued in Iraq

    There were a few other clues too.

    Its funny though.. if these are faked, no one seems to be ready to flame the fraudsters, even though the result of this will lead to nothing but more horrifying hatred and contempt in the world.

    If real - then yes, expose it.
  6. maryjaneguitargurl

    maryjaneguitargurl I am just like you.

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    that is rediculous i cant believe err

  7. trippymcnugget

    trippymcnugget Member

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    Uhh... just to let you know those picture are fake... I'll find a sorce hold on.

    1. Why do the pictures appear so static, with no obvious signs that a vicious assault is taking place?

    Mr Treselyan said: "Part of my job in the Army was to debrief victims of torture. If you were being attacked or hit in the groin by a rifle, the body goes into a foetal position to protect yourself.

    "In one picture, the man's legs are actually wide open and he is making no attempt to stop the attack. Considering what he is going through, I would also expect him to be sweating and be covered in dirt. Why is there no blood?"

    2. Why does the soldier appear to be armed with an SA80 Mk1 rifle which was not issued to British troops in Iraq?

    "That weapon is no longer issued by the British Army and was certainly not issued to troops in Iraq. They were given the SA80 A2. I think the SA80 Mk1 rifle is now only used by Royal Logistics Corps and the Territorial Army.

    "Also the condition of the rifle is odd because it is so shiny. The SA80 is mainly plastic and, as a result, it scratches easily. The ones I had lasted only a week. After that they looked like they had been in service 30 years.

    "I think the weapon in the pictures is a reproduction weapon, possibly bought through battle orders in the UK."

    3. Why is there no serial number on the rifle's foregrip?

    "Every soldier has an identifying number given to him by the armoury which is painted on to the foregrip of the rifle in yellow paint. This is so the soldier can identify his own weapon very quickly without having to look at the engraved serial number."

    4. Why has the soldier's webbing, where he would store ammunition for the rifle, been left open - against Army regulations?

    "That is one of the worst things you could do. If he was to jump out of a vehicle and run in battle, all of his ammunition would fall out of his webbing.

    "From day one, if you are ever caught with your pouch open, you would get hauled up and fined. This tells me the person in the pictures is not a soldier.

    "Also, why are his ammunition pouches empty if he is an operational soldier? Normally, he would have three ammunition magazines in each pouch and you could see the bulge."

    5. Why has the barrel of the rifle been left uncovered?

    "That certainly does not happen in desert conditions. Sand is an abrasive. If it gets inside your rifle barrel, the damage makes shots less accurate.

    "If the armourer caught you doing this, you would be court martialled. Every soldier I know uses either an issue barrel cover - like a pen top - or a condom to stop sand and moisture getting inside."

    6. Why do the pictures appear to have been taken in the back of a type of Bedford truck that was never deployed in Iraq?

    "It does not look like the standard four-ton vehicle that was in operation in Iraq. Another thing I noticed is how clean the truck is for one being used on the front line."

    7. Why are the soldier's boots laced in a criss-cross fashion?

    "British Army soldiers lace their boots straight, not diagonally. It has always been so.

    "Any Second World War veteran will tell you that during the campaign in the Far East, they used to creep up on sentries and feel their lacing to find out if they were Japanese. If it was criss-cross, they would kill them. If they were straight they were British."

    8. Why is the alleged torture victim wearing a potato sack made of hessian over his head?

    "The British Army has set procedures for interrogating suspects. The hood is to disorientate the prisoner.

    "You would never use a hessian sack because it is made out of a woven material which allows the suspect to see through it. The British Army use hoods made out of the same black material as darkroom curtains."

    9. Why is the prisoner wearing a T-shirt with the Syrian flag on the front?

    "According to the Daily Mirror's report, the torture victim comes from the Shia stronghold of Basra.

    "He would be killed within two minutes on the streets of Basra wearing a T-shirt which would show support for the hated Ba'ath party. It's a bit like wearing a British National Party shirt in Brixton, the heart of black Britain.

    "Why is he wearing underpants? Most Iraqis I met didn't wear any. I notice the prisoner is not as hairy as I would expect him to be and he appears well-fed for an Iraqi."

    10. Why is the soldier wearing a floppy hat?

    "These hats are not used operationally in Iraq. Soldiers wear either helmets or berets - especially if they are working outdoors. I never saw any colleagues wearing a floppy hat in operation."

    11. Why is the soldier's face not visible?

    "The idea of a trophy picture is to have something that you can keep for ever. In the ones I saw from the Falklands, in which people took pictures of themselves with decapitated Argentinians, their faces could clearly be seen. The pictures which came out of America last week were classic trophy pictures."

    12. Is the picture where the soldier puts a rifle to the prisoner's head against normal procedure?

    "You never, ever let your weapon get that close to a prisoner. It is standard procedure that no weapon goes within 3ft of a prisoner. Remember, these guys are suicidal and wouldn't think twice about making a grab for it."

    13. Why does the soldier have clean hands and clothes?

    "The soldier's hands are very soft - like an office worker. Why, if he has been in combat, are his hands and fingernails not covered in dirt?"

    Mr Treselyan, 45, was a warrant officer in the British Army's Intelligence Corps until he took voluntary redundancy in October 1994. During his career he trained the SAS and America's CIA in interrogation techniques and specialised in the debriefing of torture victims.

    Last night Col Bob Stewart, who commanded British forces in the Balkans, also raised doubts about the authenticity of the pictures.

    He voiced concerns at the effect the pictures would have in the Arab world. "What happens to the next British soldier taken hostage?"

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