Middle-Class

Obviously everybody has heard or read this being thrown around in the US.

What does 'middle-class' mean to you?

Why are they so important?

To me, one would think, anybody with a job is 'middle-class' in America.

 

i don't really have a strict definition of middle class. i hate to use the word in its definition, but basically, they're just the people in the middle, between being rich and being poor.

you can be lower or upper class with a job. for example, someone working a minimum wage job trying to support 6 kids is most definitely lower class. and charlie sheen has a sitcom (unless it's already canceled; i haven't seen a commercial for it recently) but he's upper class.

like i said, i don't have a strict definition of where to draw the line. you just kind of have to feel it out on a case by case basis.

edit: money is not the only thing that goes into it either, although it's the primary factor.

 

Most people are working class, which isn't the same as middle class. Middle class are doctors, lawyers, etc.

Like Robert Wyatt sings in the song below, middle class is really upper class... to most people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8wxx84muts"]Robert Wyatt - Alliance - YouTube

 

The practice of officially classifying the British population according to occupation and industry began in 1851. The occupational element was gradually increased from 1881, and in 1887 the idea was first mooted by the Assistant Registrar General that, for mortality analyses, the population might be divided into broad groups based on social standing. However, it was only in 1911 that government recognised that the concepts of occupation and industry were distinct and so included separate questions on each in that year's Census.
http://sru.soc.surrey.ac.uk/SRU9.html

Wiki:
The modern usage of the term "middle class", however, dates to the 1700's UK Registrar-General's report, in which the statistician T.H.C. Stevenson identified the middle class as that falling between the upper class and the working class. Included as belonging to the middle class are professionals, managers, and senior civil servants. The chief defining characteristic of membership in the middle class is possession of significant human capital.

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=7498480&postcount=504

I kinda know what the definition is supposed to be.

Not very good questions on my part, sorry.
I was trying to get at why 'middle-class' is so important in the US - when I imagine most people are working class.
Obama bangs on about the middle-class - so does his opponents.
Are they the mythical few who prop up America?
Do people associate themselves with the 'middle-class' regardless of their actual social/economic status?
I just wondered why everything seems to be associated with the middle-class in America...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mi...&sugexp=chrome,mod=5&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Surely it's the poor/working-class that actually should be the motivating factors...

 

The phrase "middle class" is important to the Establishment in England, because its a way of it duping a large section of people into supporting them.
Call it Marx's "false class consciousness".

The middle class isnt in the middle. Middle is midway between that cancer of a woman at Buckingham Palace( and her 60m) and a tramp who's worth nothing.

Even the middle class has its own subdivisions. An Eton schooled merchant banker is WAYYY
different to a struggling white collar person on 28k in London, for instance.

THere are many different defintions of class. Its about money, identity, characteristics, loyalties and so much more.
You can be rich and working class, for instance.

Class is certainly different in the US, compared to Britain.
I dont think people outside Britain realise how much class corruption we have here. We dont have a democracy, we basically have a type of feudalism.. just without it being farm labour...

 

It's important because people still like to believe that they are better than other people.

The working class are important because they are the ones paying for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

 

IamnotaMan, read my second post - perhaps that will make my query a little clearer.

 

yeah, I read it, but I'm still not entirely clear what your main query is? ie beyond the general issues of class.

I think we should bear in mind that the original British"middle class" was prob 5 or 7% of the popln- with servants and a MASSIVELY better quality of life than the working and "labouring" class ( the latter of which is conveniently forgotten about in history books) - as are the workhouse classes.

As for the "backbone of America" class or whatever, I dont see how its defined.
A country would die without a working class or middle class having its labours tapped into. The concept of middle class lies at the heart of the political debate, and isnt an accurate representation of what things are really like.
But there are *some* elements of truth in it all.

Is the middle class exploiter or exploited? Well it depends which section of it IMO. Most middle class people ( modern definition) are exploited by the upper class IMO.

 

That's really what I am asking: Why is the 'middle-class' at the heart of the political debate? If the 'middle-class' only represent a small proportion of the population - why are they in need of protection, and why are policies seemingly engineered to protect them? Is it because more Americans define themselves as 'middle-class' so that if politicians are talking about the 'middle-class' they think they are talking about them, and feel more confident the government is doing something for them?

 

OK now I see.
1/ "WOrking class" Americans dont vote as much as middle, in % terms.
2/"Middle class" is a large proportion of people who DO vote.
3/Middle class people are the waverers who might vote for either party
- theyre the ones that get u elected.. or not.
4/Theres the aspirational aspect eg a young poor w/class person might think" "with xyz in power, I will soon become middle class".
5/Working class people are less likely to vote republican, so the rep pty wont really chase them for welfare/blue collar wage raises etc.
6/Upper class people are unlikely to vote democrat, so the democrats wont really chase them..


I suspect 40 to 48% of Americans see themselves as middle class, so yes they are important to political parties.

 

I see. Interesting. It's nice that they are leaving nearly half of the population out of the debate *sarcasm*.

 

Did you ever consider that the media operates with an agenda, and that they work to deceive and manipulate people's views and opinions? Could you consider that perhaps there are reasons why the people in charge of the media would want the general population to believe they're middle class when they're really not. For one, it's easier to tax the hell out of people when they believe they have more money and are better off than they really are. This notion of American affluence is very much exaggerated, especially these days.

 

Perhaps. But it is very easy to put one word in front of the other in a convincing way. Unlike others, I need evidence. I think I read you thought the UN was killing babies with vaccines to depopulate. That was a few years ago, though. Who knows what words you string together these days. Your not so vocal.

 

No, I simply choose not to argue with you because you spew establishment propaganda to back up what you want to believe, which is only what they want you to believe. You seem to never have any qualms about this and are apparently content to believe every news story as complete truth, without question.

 

Asking for some evidence is not arguing.

 

I think America and also Europe needs to believe they have a sizable middle class because this represents something of a comfort zone and suggests stability...To give the impression that we're not entering some kind of Mad Max hell-realm.Sociologically middle class is an economic definition...Culturally it is about what books you have read,how you speak and what your moral values are,at least in the UK anyway...I know many people here in the UK who are technically poor,but who you would describe as middle class because of their family background and general attitude...You know,they go to art exhibitions and know who Proust is.My impression is that in America it is more of an economic definition.

 

Freedom is the right to do what the law allows?

 

Ultimately I think obsession with class is damaging and excludes people.Was John Lennon really working class as he sings in his song "Working Class Hero"?Well yes,but he was also a cultured and intelligent guy.I think people can transcend the class they are born into and just be themselves.

 

It is when one has that much money, that he isn't poor, but he doesn't have enough to be considered rich.

 

I don't think Americans really separate middle and working class. Most people not living in extreme poverty,who have jobs and comfortable homes and creature comforts consider themselves middle class. Although there may be a huge economic disparity between the middle class, from people renting tiny apartments and making 20k a year to people who own 500k mcmansions working high paying white collar jobs.

It is a cultural thing as well. The twentysomething generation may not be able to find a better job than waiting tables and they may have to scrape together rent money every month but they're college educated, they've probably had opportunity to travel and see the world, they attend cultural events and visit art galleries. They haven't quite separated themselves from their parents, who are solidly middle class and achieved the American dream when it was still achievable.

Politicians like to invoke the middle class because the vast majority of Americans consider themselves middle class.

In America's defense, I don't think we place as much importance on class as other parts of the world. This is why we lump such a large, economically diverse people into the same class.