Men and women being “equal”

And...



Helps to be properly apprised of the situation

 

Wrat1

But don’t you see you are still not trying to debate honestly

You are still not answering questions or addressing the criticisms

And you are continuing with this semantics bull shit

I mean in the context of this thread your first post that you mentioned didn’t make any sense let lone clarity and your philosophical comment seemed only aimed to confuse, and I'm sorry to say that you’ve been unable to make sense of your comments since, even with all your posts on it.

You seem to be saying that the question of is it fair and equitable for people to be paid less for the same work because of their gender or race is too difficult to answer

But is it, really

Honestly i’m unsure what your argument is and since you refuse to clarify I remain in the dark.

And i can only surmise that you are doing this on purpose because any rational and reasonable person would just answer the question in a clear and concise way (not throw ambiguous and even contradictory slang at it) -

Is getting less pay for the same work due to a persons gender or race fair or equitable in your view?

 

Women fare best in Iceland, Norway, and Sweden, which happens to coincide with government subsidized childcare. We are going nowhere before we can address childcare. In the US, you can pay half your salary to send an infant to a decent childcare and you only get a pittance of a tax break on the cost. On the other end, there is no real subsidized or nearly affordable elder care available, either, and many women have to exit the work force to care for aging parents. We can also mention, the jobs in child and elder care pay shitty wages, which confounds the issue all the greater.

 

Two

I agree and would also add maternity leave and carers leave and flexible working hours

It always amazes me how bad the US is at maternity leave





Among 41 countries, only U.S. lacks paid parental leave

 

Motherhood US style

And to add ‘insult to injury’ - The US is the most expensive nation in the world in which to have a baby – and it may factor into thousands of bankruptcies each year

And although it costs more than those other places it isn’t even for greater outcomes

Despite these high costs, the US consistently ranks poorly in health outcomes for mothers and infants. The US rate of infant mortality is 6.1 for every 1,000 live births, higher than Slovakia and Hungary, and nearly three times the rate of Japan and Finland. The US also has the worst rate of maternal mortality in the developed world. That means America is simultaneously the most expensive and one of the riskiest industrialized nations in which to have children.

Why does it cost $32,093 just to give birth in America?

 

What are we getting form this -

Well its seems to me that the right are trying to ferment the culture wars by trying to claim the right wing are the true protectors and supporters of women's rights against the evil lefties ‘woke’ transgender support that is supposedly undermining women (“men/boys being allowed to play in women’s sports.. being allowed in their bathrooms/ locker rooms”)

But as this thread has shown when you actually look at right wing support for women as a group its clear most right wingers don't care about women’s rights at all.

You get them quibbling over equal pay (like Wrat arguing over what is the definition of equal) you get them voting against universal healthcare and a decent maternity leave as too expensive while voting enthusiastically for tax cuts for the 1%.

Reality puts all the right wing ‘culture war’ bull shit about ‘protecting’ women and women's rights into the proper context, and shows it up for the con it is.

 

Nothing happens if nothing happens.

 

Your analogy is not persuasive.

 

Agreed. One can either raise her children, or one can let the government raise her children and work like a dog raising money to buy the kids goodies to try to offset the absence of her personal love and attention.

 

I am going thru that situation, right now.

 

So many women today simply need to go to work to afford a health plan and keep a career going, not to mention just plain survive if you don't happen to have a husband. I don't thing there isn't woman alive that would forego staying home vs. packing the kids up every morning at six, dragging them to the daycare germ pit, work all day, get back do daycare before they get penalized $20 every 10 minutes late for pickup - and repeat five or six days a week - and throw in somebody being sick. No wonder kids are as fucked up as they are today.

So, a lot of progress is needed here.

 

Elder care. A disaster looming. Wait until the boomer Alzheimer's epidemic takes off. There is no place to put these people that won't bankrupt a normal American family. Those you might be able to afford or even find a Medicaid bed you wouldn't send a dog to. They money they pay people in elder care is a crime - and the people they get for that money don't give a rat's ass. Been there done that for years. It's a crying shame to be old in the good old USA, not to mention sick and old. Save your pills.

 

With all the debate and general opinions floating around the internet these days I canna understand why we're not living in a utopia yet.......a mystery if ever I saw one

 

Maybe we should subsidize/incentivize two parent households rather than single mothers...

 

What?? Instead of the 'marriage penalty' ?? I'll jump on that bandwagon.

 

I know we are off topic, but I just will add that bankruptcy is a very real threat when it comes elder care. Maybe I will start a new thread

 

It's another one of those policies to "help the disadvantaged" which backfired and led to increasing such behavior instead in order to take advantage of the system. As any normal human motivation and behavior would dictate.

 

Trudge

LOL - but i notice you don’t have a counter argument.

 

And many women really enjoy having a job and a career and if you have the right social mechanisms in place that support the life work balance having kids in such a system is not a burden or a chore.

Due to our differing jobs i was the main childcarer in our family (getting the kid ready for nursery, picking her up, cooking the meals etc) , and we had a fantastic workplace nursery that our child wanted to go to so she could play with her friends, and with regulations in place as a parent that allowed me to have flexitime and carers leave so that i could do pickups and doctors appointments when needed.

Thing is that you can have social systems in place (such as universal healthcare that isn’t tied to employment) to make life good or you can have bad practices that make life shit.

The UK isn’t even the best place in Europe to raise a child but it still has many social systems still in place and as a result my child isn’t fucked up at all, she is well on her way to being a wonderful young woman.

A two parent family is a wonderful thing but it is not always possible so why not aim for a society where being a single parent doesn’t have such an adverse effect on a person's (or childs) life.

 

Horse

Why a mystery? I would think that anyone that gave this even the slightest thought would realise the answer.

I’ll explain -the problem is that a lot of people don’t seem to want to even aim for a utopia preferring something closer to a dystopia, for example promoting social and economic views shaped by ‘red in tooth and claw’ Social Darwinist ideas.

My vision for the future like many lefties is for a place where people can live healthy, prosperous lives where they have the possibility of fulfilling their potential. And the policies and ideas I often talk about explain as well as promote are about bringing that vision about, such as universal healthcare, welfare, education, training, and a new green deal amongst others.