Meat Licence - hypothetical

I don't have a problem with individuals because of their diet, but I do have a problem with the ethics of breeding and killing animals in order to satisfy a taste.

 

right i have two thigns to say here firstly regarding teeth look inside your cat or dogs mouth and if you can find similarities then you win a prize of your choice!!! we have the teeth of an ape designed to crush vegatable matter......could your teeth bite through a cows hide? secondly pants do not suffer the cut of pants releases pressure inside the pant and electronic equioment have picked up these sounds are made by gases moving towards the opening....hardly a headless cabbage runnign around your high street is it?

 

Not quite because we have got canine teeth along with our molars ... But they evolved from necessity during times like the ice age, when we had to eat meat in order to survive. They're a bit like your appendix though, we don't really need them anymore.

 

I have heard that argument back so many times but basically i was just answering some ealier posts i am not here to judge others just to hi~ light why some people do not eat meat etc......i am vegan for mainly ethical resaons if peope choose to eat it then that is fine and i accept other peoples beliefs even if i dont agree with them i am not here for an argument but just to put across a different view point even if it is just my own

 

It's ok I'm not arguing ... just adding to what you were saying.

My reasons for not eating meat anymore are based on slightly different stuff to you (but still ethical) but hey at least I'm doing it

 

iif peope choose to eat it then that is fine and i accept other peoples beliefs even if i dont agree with them i am not here for an argument but just to put across a different view point even if it is just my own[/QUOTE]
Which is all I was basically saying before I was unnecessarily sworn at.

 

I personally don't hold to that view. I don't have a problem with people eating meat, simply because it's the norm with which we're brought up and I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to know any better. However, that doesn't mean that I accept that eating meat is right in principle.

A good analogy would me medieval Europe. Marrying 12yr old girls was considered acceptable. In the context of that society, it wouldn't be reasonable to condemn an individual for behaving according to that cultural norm. But the cultural norm would still be morally unacceptable. That's pretty much my attitude to meat eating. Well actually, I have no problem with people eating meat as such. The problem I have is with people raising and slaughtering animals for that purpose. If you can find a cow that's died of old age, then go right ahead

You find it offensive to be sworn at. I find it offensive to be accused of things that I haven't done. If you can't take the time to read and understand my posts before attacking me for a crime that I haven't committed, then don't expect me to be polite.

 

hey dok ya sure seem hatefull towards meat eaters.

 

Go back. Read my posts again. Pay better attention the second time around.

 

Thats a contradiction surely ???. Eating roadkill and/or old animals is a silly idea.

 

And i don't have a problem with Hugh Fearnley Whittingsal eating it..but thats the only way people in Doks world would be allowed to eat meat wich is a silly idea.

 

I agree with what you say and this in part is why i don't eat meat. But feeding the worlds population of meat eaters with only old or animals that have died through other means than is currently in practice....is a silly idea.

 

oh ok ..its silly because the council would have a right job collecting theses animals. If it was the responsibility of 'farmers' to go around collecting these animals off the street or off their death beds, the boundaries imposed as to not impinge on others 'land' would not sustain these 'meat farmers' .. So they would go out of business.The end of the meat industry is something i could back if it was not taking away someones rights (i guess some people would say). Like other things in our vulgar society it will continue ..

 

Did I mention anything about "alowing" or not "allowing" anything? No I did not. Nor did I mention anything about anyone gathering road kill. What I did do was illustrate the difference between an objection to meat-eating and an objection to killing a living creature. You're the one that's taken that out of context and used it to construct some fantasy economic model.

And what, exactly, is a contradiction?

 

>>>You find it offensive to be sworn at<<<

Yes I do. Especially when it is done so, so needlessly and unprovoked. I certainly feel that the accusation I made was correct and cerainly didn't deserve the kind if verbal abuse which you seem to resort so easily. If I'd accused you of being a murderer or something, a more serious accusation than obviously the one I put forward, then maybe I could understand being given such wording but, over that?

I spend much time reading what you have written and I do not expect you to be polite. All I expect is that you don't resort to verbal abuse, swearing and 'fucking' this and 'dick' that when such remarks are not called for whatsoever. I can only dread to think how you would react if I did what you do to other people. If I just started going 'fuck offf! Pay fucking attention you dick' the sort of comments which dog many of your posts. I wonder how abusive you would get then? Gee whizz.

I mean, I personally think you do make a lot of good points, but you seem to have this bizarrre combination of good points and just mindless abuse and name-calling.

I'm rather curious as to why you do seem to resort to telling people to fuck off and stuff when they haven't abused you whatsoever and have put forward their difference of opinion in a harmful, passive, unprovocative and subtle way.
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It wasn't unprovoked. But I'll get to that in a moment.

This is the route of your problem. You don't understand the English language. I'm sorry, but that's really not my fault.

Firstly, the accusation made was entirely incorrect. I didn't put any words in your mouth. If I did, please illustrate exactly where and how I did so.

Secondly, I didn't 'abuse' you. I advised you to "pay fucking attention". That may qualify as a casual use of an expletive, but abuse it is not. If I called you a dick, or told you to go fuck yourself, that you could reasonably describe as abuse. As it was, you weren't abused. I'm sorry you don't like good old Anglo-Saxon foul language, but that's part of the way I communicate. Deal with it.

Are you serious? You accused me of putting words in your mouth, which was a misrepresentation of the truth. I then told you to pay fucking attention. If that's hurt your feelings, you're really being a little over sensitive. I consider it far more offensive to be accused of "putting words in your mouth".

Good

.... and as we've established, you weren't abused.

Oh please, get over it! I swear. Most people I know swear. That's how I choose to express myself. If you don't like it, I really don't fucking care.

I don't remember calling you a dick, although you certainly are acting like one at the moment

If you don't like casual swearing, then that's just tough shit. If you don't like me attacking people with the use of expletives, then that's really just tough shit too. I only actually abuse people who've been.... well, dicks! Disagreeing with someone's point of view will not cause me to resort to personal attacks. I can think of plenty of people with whom I disagree strongly on this forum, but they're able to debate like adults so we get along just fine. But if I encounter a dick, then I'll call them a dick. You, however, I didn't call anything. So please, make the effort to read what I've written before getting all emotional.

Well you see, I actually make the effort to read and understand people's posts before responding to them, so it should never in fact be necessary for you to ask me to "pay fucking attention". You can call me a dick if you like, but I might require you to explain why you feel such a comment to be justified

On the contrary. Nothing mindless about it. I debate intelligently with people who're capable of engaging on that level. The abuse is reserved for idiots with whom it's impossible to have a civilised conversation. And as has already been established, you were never in fact the victim of any abuse or name-calling, as you'd realise if you'd made the effort to think your way through your current line of argument with reference to the actual facts.

Firstly, you weren't abused. I'm sorry if you can't understand English, but that's not my problem.

Secondly, I assume you mean 'harmless'.

Thirdly, your post was not non-provocative. You made a false accusation. You also failed to retract it when your error was pointed out.

Fourthly, there's a difference between subtlety and simplicity. Your post wasn't subtle. Keep working on that ego

Fifthly, just to repeat myself for the hell of it, you weren't abused. The only person actually abused was me, when you falsely accused me of something. The manifestation of the word "fucking" in a post does not qualify, in itself, as abuse. Personally, I find slander far more offensive than the use of a naughty word.

 

Many people say "If i had to kill it myself, I'd be vegetarian" so i dunno really. However, there are people for whom meat is a "precious commodity" many people have psychological issues with meat that need to be addressed. many people view it as a centrepiec eof the table, which i find to be silly.

i do tend to agree though. I do think that if you're going to eat meat, you should be prepared to take responsibility for it.

 

i wouldnt row u ya fucker heh. well unless i disagreed, but its all sence so far.

oh yeah, ya know loads of veggies say, i havnt got a problem with people eating meat? well i have, but i cant do anything about it. ive got friends that are meat heads, but if i could wipe u all out in one go then i would, and so would the animals.

 

*whistles* I've never thought that, no, me? never.......:X

 

>>>>>This is the route of your problem. You don't understand the English language. I'm sorry, but that's really not my fault.<<<<

Now YOU are making false accusations. Saying I don't understand English when I do & even have the certificates in my Record Of Achievement to prove so. I could take that and use it as justification for swearing back at you, but I know that it would be very pointless and uneccessary, which is the primary point I'm trying to make.

>>>>>I'm sorry you don't like good old Anglo-Saxon foul language, but that's part of the way I communicate. Deal with it.<<<

See, the thing is, you said yourself that your behaviour and language differs depending on how you are communicating with and what kind of environment you're in, and some forms of language and behaviour are just inappropiate in some circumstances, and it was inappropiate then. You could have put it in a context of 'pay attention (without the uneccesary inclusion of the word 'fucking') or even just said 'listen' and it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. Whereas that sentence you wrote was like something straight out of a drunken, heated domestic arguement. Why I don't know, but am keen to find out.

>>>>>I consider it far more offensive to be accused of "putting words in your mouth".<<<<<<<

As I pointed out before, that very much depends on the seriousness of the accusation. There is a clear distinction between accusing someone of putting words into their mouth and accusing them of being a nazi or thief, to which the latter I might certainly agree that saying 'pay fucking attention' might be more fitting.

>>>>Oh please, get over it! I swear. Most people I know swear. That's how I choose to express myself. If you don't like it, I really don't fucking care.<<<<<

Of course they do, I confess to using swear words myself, but am always cautious when directing them at other people and will only revert to using them if it's really necessary. It takes an awful lot to drive me to the point of saying 'pay fucking attention' to somebody. Not that I'm implying you have to be as tolerant as I am but I've posted on here for almost three years, had pretty heated debates with people without heated topics never once needing to say things such as 'pay fucking attention', 'fuck off', etc, etc. I'm just very intruiged that, of all the debates I've been in, and of all the discussion forums I've been on, you are possibly one of the quickest-to-resort-to-swearing-or-verbal-abuse posters I've yet come across, and that is saying something considering how fiery some internet users can get!! Again, I'm not demanding that you be more tolerant than other users but I just don't see why you need to do it when it's not called for. I could've made that very same accusation to any other user on this forum, even people like Treehouse and Bugman, and I bet their reply would've been a lot calmer than yours and, before you say 'yes it was calm' then can I say that reading it, from an objective point of view, many, it would appear quite offensive.

Most of us swear, and most of us are very familiar with swearing and casual swearing. On the same token most of us regulate our swearing and only use it if the situation or whatever has been said is suitable and justifiable for it. A lot of your posts, or at least the ones where there is someone who disagrees with you on a serious topic (by that I mean war, hunting, etc), have indications that you don't regulate your swearing whatsoever and am keen to know why that is the case when such a large percentage of Hip-forumers have debates without ever even dreaming of saying 'fuck' off and 'pay fucking attention'

>>>I don't remember calling you a dick, although you certainly are acting like one at the moment <<<<

You didn't call me a dick. But you have called some other users dicks when it hasn't been necessary and when the other person hasn't been abusive whatsoever. Chances are that if you're just going to lash at people with text like that then a) they will not want to listen to you anymore or take seriously what you say, b) it will simply reinforce their position, and could make them stubborn to their own viewpoint and c) they'll lash out back. Of course the latter of those is very much not the case with my posts as I'm sure you are aware. Wether I am acting like a dick or not, depends on what you think really and can only ever be an opinion. Most people DO get offended when they are sworn at for seemingly nothing and I am no exception to that and yet because of this I am supposedly acting like I dick? I see no logic in that.

>>>>>u don't like casual swearing, then that's just tough shit. If you don't like me attacking people with the use of expletives, then that's really just tough shit too.<<<<<<<<<<

I am surprised that, for someone who claims to have a lot of compassion for nature, for animals and for people, that you really don't care if you are offending them or not.

>>>>You can call me a dick if you like but it might require you to explain why you feel such a comment to be justified<<<<

You know I wouldn't do that as like I said it would be uncalled for and uneccessary, even taking into account the fact that I use casual swearing myself. If I offend you by accident, then I take that into account when I debate with you in future, but it seems you are not prepared to do the same for me.

I'm not being emotional I'm only acting as most people would and do act when people do swear at them out of the blue. I've had far worse abuse or slandering than 'pay fucking attention' believe me!! At the same time, I'm still curious as to why you do incorporate such a large amount of it in many of your debates.