Maximum liberty should always be the goal

Discussion in 'Libertarian' started by TheGreatShoeScam, Dec 19, 2018.

?

Where are we at ?

  1. America is getting more like a police state every year

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%
  2. America is the land of the free

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    Trump has his "Make America Great Again" thing and alot of people ask what made America great and what sucks about it now ?

    You get many answers but it was Americans focus on liberty back then that allowed us to kick ass compared to other countries. So if they really wanted to make America great again they would pull back on all the authoritarianism of the last 30 years.
     
  2. GuerrillaLorax

    GuerrillaLorax along the peripheries of civilization

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    Care to clarify more of your thoughts on how you think america has ever been about liberty? And not slavery and genocide.
     
  3. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Minimum wage, 1939= 30 cents.
    Minimum wage 1955=75 cents.
    Now= 7.25, federal.
    Always had the liberty to slave away for peanuts while the top earners ,as usual, get most of the money. "The more things change, the more they remain the same."
     
    snowtiggernd and Running Horse like this.
  4. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    At least in 1955 the gap between the average worker and ceo wasn't quite so pronounced. I mean there was a gap, but it has grown demonstrably worse.
     
    Tyrsonswood likes this.
  5. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    The principle is the same. That's why workers formed unions, to have some say --some influence in how they were/are treated and paid. Unions that were paid for in blood, perpetrated by the usual goons that are always available to do the bidding of chickenshit owners like that coal baron prick that was in the news some time back.
    And that is why the repubs are so fond of right to work laws.
    "who do those assholes think they are--this is my company! They better damn well do as I say and not stir up that commie shit." they have said on occasion, as they dip their fondue and sip their fine wine, while workers struggle to get by on the paltry wages the rich deign to "gift "hard working folks. That's the way it has always been and this current batch is among the worst,IMO. Sure, one has the liberty to go to school and maybe get a better job---oops--50 to 100 thousand in debt.
     
  6. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Thirty years? That takes us back to the administration of G.H.W. Bush. Ah yes, the Golden Age. Which is why he was a one-term president and Clinton beat him with the slogan "It's the economy, stupid." Reagan, the previous Prez, had systematically and successfully undermined the power of labor unions, sending the U.S. blue collar middle class into a tailspin it's yet to recover from. It was during the "borrow and spend" voodoo economics of the Reagan years that the gap between rich and poor became a chasm and Yuppies took over the country. Bush '41 was more of the same. "Freedom" for the well-to-do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  7. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Reagan+ Busted the Greyhound bus union. Busted the Air Traffic Controllers union. Somehow got thousands of mental patients thrown out of the places that were helping/maintaining them and then --they were on the streets. Just a few things that the republican GOD did. Republicans at their finest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  8. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Technology and fear are what has made America un-American.

    People fear a terrorist enough to allow things like the NSA or TSA. And we all carry a smart phone in our pocket that can be made into a audio and visual surveillance device. This can be exploited by any goverment or clever hacker.

    When 1984 was written this technology was sci-fi now it's not.

    If people were brave enough and stood up for other rights as they do guns it goes a long way.
     
    Okiefreak likes this.
  9. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    I remember the pre 1990s America. Before "broken windows" policing for profit and mass incarceration. Before this bullshit of "show id" to buy things.

    The USSR was still around and people valued freedom. In school if they made a new rule people that was unfair people would say this is bull what is this Russia ??

    If someone was going to do something stupid we would comment go ahead its a free country. No one says that anymore.

    In 1994 everything really changed Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act - Wikipedia

    Billions on police and prisons and drug war ect ect. Then of course "Nine Eleven" in 2001 finished us off. Full steam ahead on liberty removal after that.

    My generation ( X ) is the last one that can remember America before it went bat shit police state crazy.
     
  10. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    Who is anyone to tell me I am not allowed to work for any amount I see fit to work for ? If someone says I will hire you for 5 dollars an hour to watch my dog who the hell is anyone to say that its illegal for me and the dog owner to make that deal ?

    When government gets involved some big kennel company will end up dominating because only big companies with a legal department and "human resources" department can deal with all the BS red tape.

    I don't have any vision of some libertarian utopia but damn we really need to move in the direction of getting government the F out of our lives.
     
    wrat1 and mcme like this.
  11. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Tell it to the judge. The property owner probably will, because the Institute of Justice has taken his case and agreed to represent him. But why is this news? It's a dog bite man story--one that is so extraordinary that it was covered in newspapers across the country. For every story like this, there are lots of other examples in which individuals have killed people by negligently maintaining hazardous conditions or vicious dogs on their property. We never hear of what's going on in thousands of small towns like the one I live in, because the officials and the people who elect it are relatively fair and reasonable. Libertarian outlets took up the Dunedin cause as an instance of "police state" overreach. But really, how many people outside of Florida ever heard of the town on Dunedin? We probably all know of towns that are notorious speed traps--that get a large part of their income from pouncing on unsuspecting motorists who exceed by 1mph their ridiculous speed limits. Dunedin appears to be just another variant of this pattern--collecting a big chunk of its revenue from fines and foreclosures on residents who violate their draconian rules. People who live there must know this by now. And yet they return the rascals to office and keep the ordinances on the books. Time for a good court challenge--on due process grounds. Lots of luck, cuz the courts tend to give municipal ordinances the benefit of the doubt.

    Anyhow, our society has long championed two conflicting interests--the freedom of individuals to do what they want and the right of property owners to live in neighborhoods that have minimum standards of how they keep up their property. It's up to the courts to balance these interests. Municipal governments can exercise the "police power" of the state to make and enforce reasonable regulations to protect the public health, safety, welfare and morals. The property owner in this case let his grass grow to a height of over 10 inches for a period of eight weeks, had committed a similar violation in 2015, and put himself out of touch with the city during the time period in question. Admittedly, the penalty is way out of proportion to the gravity of the offense, but he knew or should have known the rules, and was oblivious to the interests of his neighbors, so he probably should have to pay a substantial penalty. I know people like that, and they can ruin a neighborhood. My guess is the court will find the penalty in this case to be way excessive and disproportional to the offense, and will order the city to reduce it drastically. The city's actions have put it on the map--but not in a good way!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  13. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    [​IMG]z

    If they succeeded in taking my house over some dumb crap I would destroy it with black mold before leaving. Thoroughly wet everything with the garden hose then close it up tight to keep it humid and let nature take its course.
     

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