"Mass disturbance" and its consequences in the USA and Europe.

Discussion in 'Protest' started by budimir, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. budimir

    budimir Senior Member

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    I'm from Belarus where, as you may know, were held presidential elections on December 19, accompanied by mass protest rally against irremovable Belarusan president.

    A small group of guys has tried separately to storm the government headquarters. They've broken some door glasses unimpeded (because of this unimpededness some think they were agents provocateurs in fact).

    Then rally of many thousands was dispersed, after what more than 700 people, even not participants, absolutely random people, who had nothing to do with the political protest, were detained, judged and condemned to 10-15 arrest days or to pay about 300 dollars of fine. Six alternative candidates for presidency and some noticeable political activists (32 people altogether) are now prosecuted for "organization of the unsanctioned mass actions" that threatens from 5 to 15 years imprisonment.

    What I want to know is whether it sounds normally for you, Americans and Europeans. Or more concretely:

    1) If a rally is "unsanctioned" does it mean that it will be certainly dispersed by police in your country?

    2) What is called a "mass disturbance" in your country? Would your authorites call a small group of guys breaking glass a "mass disturbance"?

    3) Is it okay in your country to disperse a rally of many thousands and detain more than 700 people (including absolutely random people) because of a small group of guys breaking glass?

    4) What is a usual penalty in your country for participation in the "unsanctioned mass actions"?

    5) Have you ever heard about absolutely random people being detained, judged and condemned to days of arrest after a mass rally in your country?

    6) When the last time have you heard about criminal trial against "organizers of the unsanctioned mass actions" in your country and how many years of arrest had they got?

    Thank you in advance for your answers.
     
    budimir, Jan 25, 2011
    #1
  3. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    First, let me welcome you back, Budimir. :sunny:
    I was thinking and worried about you after seeing the election results. And many times in the past I've wondered what happened to you and if you both were ok.

    How sad that elections aren't fair in Belarus and the repressive gov't isn't getting any better, I guess.

    I've answered your questions regarding the situation in the USA. I'm actually suprised that the US is using exactly the same tactics as Belarus! And even the US sees Belarus as a dictatorship.

    Most of the time it will be dispersed if anyone complains or there is any sort of disruption. People are allowed to gather without permits, but big rallies that happen in streets or that require policing need approval first.

    Yes, especially if there are others protesting, whether all are causing the disturbance or not. Yes, agent provocateurs are very common to elicit a violent police response. Many police live for this type of "action" against peaceful protesters. Others don't, and successful revolutions are often won when police or other military turns against the gov't. Police are the most sympathetic (but not the secret police!). In Tunisia they at times retreated and let the people protest.
    Yes, that seems to be the authorities reaction everywhere. Not unusual. They don't want these things to get out-of-hand...

    Depends on exactly what you did. Just being in a certain place doesn't usually make you guilty of anything. If you disobey an officer of the law, then you can be arrested and jailed depending on severity of what you did. No particular sanctions against participation in something unsanctioned. You'd have to DO something specific.
    Yes, this is exactly what happens in the US. It's a tactic that is very successful at dissuading people from future protesting. The more you make the protesters miserable, the longer you keep them detained - usually without food or water or legal counsel or any recourse - the harder their conditions of imprisonment, the less likely they will do it again.

    In the lead up to the Iraq war the big protests in NYC and elsewhere were ignored by the media while people were locked up for 48 hours or longer in such conditions. But usually they are just kept until the "event" is over and they've been searched, photographed, fingerprinted, scanned, interrogated, threatened, etc...
    The biggest court case was the Chicago 7, with Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, John Froines, and Lee Weiner on trial in 1968 for the disturbances in Chicago during the 1968 Democratic Convention. These Yippies turned the trial around as a mockery of the US justice system. They were charged with conspiracy and inciting a riot. In reality, it was the police who rioted and attacked the peaceful demonstrators and many innocent people including journalists were beaten badly like this guy...
    [​IMG]
     
    skip, Jan 25, 2011
    #2
  5. budimir

    budimir Senior Member

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    Yeah, we got in the mess, bro, both parts of the Siamese Twins. The guys in black seized us some kilometers away from the square where the demonstration took place. Without introducing who they are, without any explanations what's going on. And very roughly: for example, they smashed my stepson's nose and strangled my wife with her scarf. Plus, there were a cople of our friends with us who not only hadn't taken part in any "unsanctioned mass actions" but even hadn't seen them. One of those friends - former missile engineer, now a philosopher and art historian - was a serious disabled person. He lacks two arms and a leg. But they have seized him too! Moreover, they said he had thrown stones at police officers! Though he had no limbs to throw stones with and there were no stones thrown at the police officers during the rally at all...

    Then I was condemned to 10 days of arrest, my stepson to 15 days of arrest, my wife, my disabled friend and his wife - condemned to pay $300 fine.

    That's the difference. All of us and 700 other people were detained, judged and jailed just for being "in the wrong place at the wrong time". The absurd is that many of those people never were there...
     
    budimir, Jan 26, 2011
    #3

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