man in yeman follows mohammeds example and gets arrested

Discussion in 'Islam' started by jonny2mad, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    Narrated 'Ursa:
    The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Sahih Bukhari 7.88)

    Narrated 'Aisha:
    I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) (Sahih Bukhari 8.151)

    Narrated 'Aisha:
    Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' " (Sahih Bukhari 9.140)

    in debate I have had muslims tell me that girls are capable of marriage at such a age that they develop faster in desert regions, well how has this girl died, and ask yourself why would god leave such a example from his last prophet
  2. Since the begning of creation women have risked their lives in child birth and labored to ensure that their children live to adulthood. Whereas because men on average have a physically stronger body have fall into love of war and subjugation of his enviroment and those weaker. To this effect women have always been and most likley always will be used (and often traded) as simple chattel. Simple objects who's only value is for either the profit or pleasure of others.

    In western society we're nothing more than the biggest exploitable market for clothing, make up, cleaning products, etc. If anyone takes to the time to study Joreen, Hanisch or Morgan and verify the validity of their research...
    They will discover very quickly that women's purchases comprise between 55% to more than 70% of any western nation's economy. In short in western society a woman's value isn't in her mind, opinions, emotions or even skills.. It's in her susceptibility to be manipulated into buying things she doesn't need. Face it a woman is one the largest cogs in the proverbial system's machine. Western women are a type of economic serf and we're considered as throw away as a candy bar wrapper.

    There aren't 2 different types of freedom, you either have it or you don't. Since thd average man is always going to exploit women in some manner or another. I'll argue then that if a man can be held responsible for that exploitation and be prevented from using a female as a throw away goods. Then overall this is a good thing and I'll support and fully endorse that endevor, even if it includes marriage

    In a perfect world there are no poor nations and ever single child has access to quality education and is raised with love and compassion. But sadly the world isn't perfect. Therefore if a man, who in accordance with Islam is capable of financially providing for a young girl, is willing to take her as his wife.. Then so be it. Because for some girls being a child bride may be a much better alternative to the life they would otherwise have. As it was at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) when father's were so idiotic and cruel that they would bury their daughters alive.

    Muhammad's(pbuh) marriage to Aisha went a long way to curtailing such practices and conveyed some sort of value where there was almost none. Research any prophet or saint and you find that at base of everything they said or did was a concern to put an end to idiotic ignorant behavior of society.

    Yes ignorance causes people to do some really horrific things to others.

    As for the man that placed his sexual desires above the love and care of his young wife. Well obviously he was ignorant of the Qur'an and the hadiths because no man is allowed to do something like what he did. If it was still the era of the Prophet (pbuh) he probably would have been killed for it.

    Men that don't know how to restrain themselves always end up imposing their will upon others physically weaker.
  3. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    You havent answered my question at all, this man is following the direct example of mohammed in marrying a 8 year old actually mohammed was older than this guy when he married aisha, this is one of the reasons you get so many child marriages in muslim majority countrys because the guys go "BUT MOHAMMED DID IT SO ITS OK"

    "Men that don't know how to restrain themselves always end up imposing their will upon others physically weaker."
    this sounds like your talking about mohammed hes in his 50s shes 8 I would say that was rape and child abuse yet you seem to think god chose this guy with such low morals regarding children as his last prophet .

    you would think if there is a god he would know that having a slaver and child abuser as his prophet would mean that slavery and legal child abuse would last longer amongst his followers, because thats whats happened .

    in yeman you have guys marrying 8 year olds and in saudi a few years ago when I was there slaves were legal, 200 years after the infidels of the uk made slavery illegal, I'm not sure you have ever been able to legally marry 8 year olds in the uk maybe in the middle ages, but a hell of a long time ago if at all
  4. Here in the UK we had Jimmy Saville. A man that not only abused prepubescent girls and boys but also procured them for others and there's numerous rumors that many were filmed.... Videos that were traded and sold.

    Saville wrecked havoc for more than 4 decades and had an estimated 600 victims. But he lived to a ripe old age and died a wealthy man. So he was a winner in the game of life because he escaped all forms of man made justice. Therefore the only justice possible now is that which comes from Allah(swt) /God.

    Why is there suffering in this world?

    I wish I could answer that. The only thing that I know is that this world is a temporary one because for each of us it ceases to exist the moment we die. If there's a God, then whatever God is... is a being of an intelligence and power beyond our capability to imagine. So whatever this reality is about, you just have to have faith that this being known to us as God is behind it all with some reason we just can't see.

    I too cry out for justice each and every single day. But those that cry for justice the loudest want to see and believe in God the most. For us we see the beauty and wonder of creation and don't want to see it destroyed or perverted. Because in the end we feel powerless and know that our only hope rests with a being of infinite power and intelligence. So naturally we get angry and often jaded when He appears to do nothing.

    Women and children have always been abused, used, traded and sold by men.

    And the best we can do as human beings is try to mitigate that to some extent. We pass laws, institute traditions, educate others, etc. Unfortunately for all of us it will always be a numbers game. To this effect from a purely human perspective the man that killed his child bride with his sexual impulses did less damage than Saville. But from a God's perspective both men will held accountable as if they did exactly the same things.

    So why was child marriage allowed in Islam?

    Because at the time of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) it was often the only way to save a young girl's life. Can you imagine a man's wife gives birth to a girl and that man goes and digs a hole in the desert and buries his child alive? Because that was the situation going on at the time of the Prophet(pbuh). Unfortunately this situation still exists in many many many nations. And while here in the west a woman's life is protected by law the truth of the matter is for most women we're nothing more than serfs.

    And as a muslim I will say that from day one we're taught that to harm even just one person (or creatures) is to harm all of creation.

    But Muslim or other, if all of us could commit that philosophy not only to memory but make it part of our very souls... Then this would would be a lot less bloody and consequently the need for justice would be far less.
  5. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    OH CRAP!!!!!
    I accidentally gave the above post a thumbs up when what I actually meant to say was
    you are so absolutely clueless that it is no longer funny but tragically sad. :(
  6. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

    jimmy saville died a rich man, mohammed was actually worse he personally beheaded loads of people as well as being a rapist pedophile but jimmy saville is now in disgrace his grave was attacked
    but muslims are so stupid they believe this pedophile charles manson character was the most moral man that ever lived .

    Really you have to see the funny side of it, as a group you belong to some of the most gullible people anywhere .

    There is no evidence that mohammed married aisha to protect her in fact in the haddith when talking to a man who had not married a child "When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron." He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins AND FOR FONDLING THEM?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)

    mohammed was old enough to be aishas grandfather and when he died he left her childless and 18 and he made a ruling that she couldnt remarry how the hell was that looking after her .

    he married other women before aisha and who knows how many slave women he raped and then sold on .....and you think this is gods last prophet ....crazy
  7. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Get smart RIF. Its no good just going on about some non entity DJ who anyone with any perception always knew was some kind of wierdo.

    You might do better to attack the Catholics on the grounds of the child abuse scandals they have had. Or secular British culture because of child abuse scandals in council run childrens homes.

    But even to do that implies some acceptance that there is a case to answer, if you get my drift.
    Just as much abuse under western values as under Islam.

    World of sleepers.
  8. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    The dichotomy exists that people can be intelligent AND dumb. Perplexing. When the questioning stops--the learning stops.

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is all that's needed,IMHO. BUT--I'm still questioning the nature of existence and our places in it. At least as much as I am able.
  9. I would prefer to talk about the protestants and their alleged secular governments that have dropped nukes, 20 million tons of Agent Orange, sold nerve and poison gas to dictators and used depleted uranium.

    But I'm tired so I'll go with whatever floats your boat.

    Since most of you have come here because you want to have the following confirmed by a Muslim.
    This being that Muslims = Bad... And you = Good

    Therefore I capitulate and as a Muslim I'll say that you're all right...
    We Muslims are bad people, we're primitive and we're not worthy to lick your dirty boots.

    There I said it and it's a load of my shoulders. You'll are now winners. Therefore all of you can now take this moral vindication and go live your lives secure in the knowledge that you were right about everything.
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    The fact that you question things is laudable.

    Do unto others... is a basic thing I think.

    It seems to me that it is more about people being embedded in their own culture than being dumb as individuals.
    But as I say, world of sleepers.

    Both punch and judy:)
  11. Manservant Hecubus

    Manservant Hecubus Master of Funk and Evil

    Pot meet Kettle
  12. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

    I thought mohammeds example was riding flying horses!
  13. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    But I never said muslims bad, me good.

    I just said that there are more relevant issues to this than saville.

    Its bad that atom bombs have been dropped, that agent orange was used in Vietnam. No sensitive being could deny that. Its bad too that in Saudi Arabia, men are locked away with no access toi lawyers, doctors or family, or that women are stoned etc.

    My view is that
    of the current models for human existence are really fucked.
    What we need is something new. Not Islam , not Liberalism, not Christianity.

    My own view is that the prophet of Islam was a neccersarry figure at one time in history. As was JC, Newton, even Harry S Truman. You and me.

    Your petulant tone though is really just silly, and adds nothing to your case.
  14. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    And not conservatism.
  15. Comes from being a Muslim.

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