man asking question about objectification of women

Hello,

So for those of you who are against the objectification of women, here's a question: is it possible for a man to pick up a girl at a bar without treating her as a sex object? I mean, is it possible for a man to pursue a woman for sexual purposes but still treat her as a human being? Let's say the guy at the bar who picks you up approaches you with the intention of being polite and respectful. He says hi, he introduces himself, at some point he asks if he can buy you a drink, asks about what your interests are, your thoughts, your opinions, etc. He's being polite, he's showing respect. Isn't this what it is to treat someone as a human being? Is this mutually exclusive with wanting to have sex with her?

PS - I'm asking this because I've been doing a lot of research into feminism lately and some of the views out there almost have me believing that some women think it is mutually exclusive.

 

I suppose it's possible. If you go to a bar with the intention of picking up a girl for sex, on the one hand you could say, "Couldn't she be anyone?" But there's really no telling if she is just anyone. I think objectification goes further than that. Thinking you've got women down to a science. They're all the same, all you have to do is say this or that, be this or that. It never works out that way. You might fail with a thousand women and succeed with one, but you can't accredit that one success with the way you look or the way you think about women in general. I question whether your intentions really have anything to do with the outcome, if the right woman isn't in the bar that night. So it is something beyond objectification and not a perfect science.

 

I think i'd rather be picked up at a bar politely than treated as a sex object..but I'm not as kinky as some other girls either.

 

I don't know if I understand you. Are you saying there's a difference between treating a woman like a human being vs. treating a woman like an individual?

I agree that thinking you can reduce women to a science is a kind of objectification--it's like treating women like a computer: push the rights buttons and you get the right output.

But approaching a woman with the intention to have a conversation with her, get to know her, even if your ultimate goal is to have sex, is, in my mind, recognizing her humanity, and recognizing that she is going to have certain idiosyncracies (which is what the conversation is supposed to reveal), and most importantly it is to get a feel for whether or not she is consenting (or interested) in having sex. Consent is the key here, I think, because you don't need consent from an object to have your way with it--even if that object is highly sophisticated and requires some kind of manipulation--but seeking out consent (which is part of the goal in picking up a woman, at least in this scenario) is to recognize the woman's humanity and to respect it.

You think?

 

Thoughts of sex, sex drive are hormonal secretions and are not so delicate of discretion. You can feed the body and respect the person. It is minds that join, bodies only touch.

 

That's an answer I like to hear. A man pursuing a healthy sexual appetite while also respecting women as human beings is totally possible.

 

Damn, I was going to start a thread on this same subject... then I stumbled across this. I honestly don't get why women get so upset over the idea of a man objectifying them sexually. What's the big deal? IMO, women should take it more as a complement than an insult... just saying.

 

A compliment? No.
It's degrading, some women are obviously into it but that will be down to sexual preference. If I ever go out to a bar or a club (very rare) and I find the guys who act like all they want is sex and all they see me as is an object, are twats.
Taking it as a compliment would be like saying 'wow, all these men want to fuck me, I must really be something else, I adore it when someone wants sex from me without taking the time to get to know me and see that I'm a really nice person with great interests and life stories that would blow their minds, its fine, I love being an object, I'll just turn my feelings and sense of self worth off quickly before anyone notices there is a personality hiding under here'

To the OP..I'm not into one night stands or finding a sexual partner when out like that, if I was then I'd much rather be treated as a human being (lol, pretty sure most would).. if I go out I'm usually the one who just talks to people, it feels nice knowing someone is interested in what you have to say and what you're preferences are. Obviously though there are things to take into consideration, like emotional needs. A friend of mine has had a few encounters like this, afterwards she gets upset because she feels like she wants to get to know the person further and usually the man hasn't wanted anything more than that night, so she then feels a bit upset/angry. She's sensitive though and of course not all women are going to try contacting you over and over!

 

Maybe I should start a new thread. Cause I'm not just talking about life inside a bar/club. I'm talking about the women that also find billboards in the city that feature sexually attractive women to be insulting and degrading. The women who think that the scantily clad girls on the cover of the magazines are being disgustingly objectified as sexual objects by men. Same for the girls featured in numerous TV commercials (I could go on and on). God forbid males could appreciate the sensuality of women without them taking it as a degrading form of sexual objectification.

 

Here`s an intelligent response to the objectification strawman women use to put themselves up on a pedestal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N9daqANcw

 

Hey chicks that do it for a living consentually is fine, its their choice to be half naked, and their aim is to seduce men I suppose. It's degrading if its not what you want, but obviously posing with your tits out on a magazine cover is intended to be sexual, rather than 'wow, I wonder what her interests are'

 

I agree. Women have needs too. I know women who go to bars to meet nice guys and hang out with them, and I suppose possibly take it to the next level. Being respectful and polite is the number one way to have sex with women. You don't even necessarily need to be looking for someone to date exclusively to have a good time.

 

Hey xxaru,

I hear what you're saying, but I think this only makes sense from a male perspective. I was walking to a church this summer in a Tux (for a wedding) and I passed by an appartment complex. There were some girls on the second floor who whistled at me and said something kinda objectifying like "Hey, sweetie, nice ass". I wasn't offended, I was kinda flattered. I think for a man, those kinds of comments only say "You've still got it" or "women find you sexy, and that's a good thing."

But I don't think it's necessarily like that for women.

Here's 3 scenarios:

1) A man walks up to a woman in a bar, talks to her with respect and acts politely, at some point lets her know he finds her sexually attractive. (IOW, just like the scenario in my OP).

2) A woman asks a man "Do you think I'm sexy?" and he says "Yes, very much."

3) A woman walks by a construction site and all the guys start make crude comments and obscene gestures like "Hey, nice tits" or "I'd love to ride that ass, baby."

In #1, the woman is being flattered in two way: 1) she's being respected, and 2) she's being told she is sexually attractive. The second item covers what you were trying to say I think (about being sexual attractive counting as a compliment).

In #2, the woman only gets the 2nd form of flattery (i.e. the guy isn't respecting her per se, he's just making it known that he finds her sexually attractive). I would guess this would also make the woman feel flattered, as it covers (again) what you were trying to say, but in the absence of the respect (not that the guy was disrespecting her).

In #3, although the woman is getting the message that she is sexually attractive, she's also being insulted at the same time. The crass comments and stuff tell her "Hey, I don't care if this offends you or not, what you think doesn't matter, what matters only is that I think you're sexy and I'm going to express that." So yeah, maybe some girls *might* walk away feeling flattered at the fact that they must be sexy if they're receiving comments like this, but I think with many other girls, the insulting way it is delivered cancels the flattery out and they just end up feeling offended.

 

as a woman i feel i can say that if the woman goes home with you chances are she's objectifying you so what makes men doing it so wrong? If women want to be treated equally, there can be no double standards.

 

If you want to know whether women as a whole care about objectification, zero in on what they do, not what they say. Starting with the way they dress.

 

The idea of objectification is so subjective. My two cents is that as long as two people consent (meaning they both know that it's purely a sexual encounter), it's not degrading or objectifying.

 

No. It's not.

 

Are you just being stupid or is this serious?

 

Sadly being serious.

This is not attractive to women [that get hit on all the time]. Eventually she'll puss out. Give you a smile and say "Sorry."

She'll probably accept your drink, & enjoy the attention while she checks out other more dominant guys @ the bar though. :daisy:

It is. At least I think it is. Unfortunately women don't show this any respect when it comes to creating sexual attraction or finding a mate. I wish it was different too. Better luck dating your friends. Even then, you can't be too polite or plain.

*Note there are some women that aren't dominate-male whores, but they don't shine at bars and clubs either. Even then, these traits of attraction hold true at a biological core... So be careful.

-Doing those things you stated above alone will not get you laid. You can get away with doing those things (or anything really) if your energy and confidence is sexy on top, but being polite and respectful, or even earnestly interested rolleyes is a turn off.

 

No, it's not possible if your sole purpose in "persuing a woman" is for sex. Now let me ask you, do you believe that women don't readily objectify men? If you think they don't, ask yourself what are the first two things that attracts a heterosexual woman to a man? Now ask yourself, what are the first two bits of information that most women want to know about a man who she finds attractive?