Majority of People would allow warrent-less spying anyways

In short, yes.

First, of all... you live in England so I suppose they are not. But regardless, how do you know they are not already looking at those things? Do you really think that because people found out about one thing (which I believe was already discussed anyways in 2006 but whatever...) that that's all there is to it? I believe it's just scratching the surface. And funny you mention medical, do you have any idea how many people can look at medical records?-even "confidential" stuff like mental health and drug and alcohol treatment? I do agree the more info they have the harder it is to have the time to look too far into any one person but the fact remains that we don't know it all... and that things like this in the past HAVE been abused, and it will be abused and I'm sure already has.
Also, the constitution under amendment four protects citizens from having the gov. look at information like this without a warrant. And then they took that away without anyone's consent in secret courts. That is not right. Yes, I know they say it's legal because it's like having a book on the shelf (people's actual conversations- not just to this person from that person...) and they are legally allowed to have that book, that it does not violate amendment four- and if they want to open that book, then they will get a warrant. But, come on now... I don't believe that for a second.
It all comes down to, I think, whether you trust the government.

 

What are "they" looking for? Why are "they" snooping? Anyone actually know?

 

AmericanTerrorist

I guess it does boil down to if you trust the honesty of those chaps at the NSA (or GCHQ), and those that ask them to implement their policies. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I think my mind would change if I actually warmed to the 'whistle-blowers'.
But JA, BM and Snowden just really creep me out. I just don't like or trust them at all.
Snowden was suggesting the powers that be might pay off the triads to bump him off - that sounds like a bit of a stretch to me.
He'll be arrested and put in prison more than likely.
I'm personally not going to let my imagination get the better of me based on virtually no details. Just suspicion.

I do know that: An Emergency Care Summary is held on a central database so that it can be accessed quickly by out-of-hours doctors and A & E departments. And I do know that has been abused in the past.
But it is also true the people that find out it has been abused are also working for the NHS.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7749879.stm
I can't really do anything about rogue Dr's (etc) looking at my records with out authorisation.
But I don't mind my records being readily available if it will save my life.
I can't really carry them around with me can I? (Knowing me, I'd lose them )
There is a difference between 'snooping' and using them in the course of saving my life etc.

I guess both are open to interpretation.

 

As far as I know 'metadata' 'properties' 'inspect element'
Means of creation of the data
Purpose of the data
Time and date of creation
Creator or author of the data
Location on a computer network where the data were created
Standards used
To find connections/links

 

Uh, "they" claim they are keeping people safe by looking for terrorists... those who talk to terrorists.... stopping terrorists plots etc.

 

Are they to be believed? If not --then what?

 

You'd let what you believe be swayed by whether you like and trust Snowden or not???! Snowden was just verifying something that everyone already knew anyway but couldn't prove (although I believe this was all discussed before in 2006- maybe this time things will actually change, though I doubt it...).
Anyways, how I view things has absolutely nothing to do with Snowden.

And when I was talking about medical records... I was talking about the M.I.B.- (not about my records being available to safe my life in the case of a medical emergency)... the M.I.B. is the medical information bureau and even when you're in mental health/substance abuse treatment the MIB will come and look at your files... at what your counselor or whom ever wrote down about your sessions- the DETAILS... even though this is confidential info. - they do this as a way to make sure the facility is doing what they are supposed to be doing and actually treating people and billing them correctly, etc.-anyways this is kinda going off on another topic... my original point of bringing this up though was that your medical info is NOT personal and if the MIB can access it, surely other people can... (and how to you know who is working for the MIB, just like the NSA?... a bunch of contractors... great.) (btw, I know this about the MIB from personal experience and knowing people in the field very well).

Anyways, I don't really think you can compare your medical records being avail. for life-saving being like the NSA storing your emails, etc.- as you compared how you said either can save your life/keep you safe.
How is it gonna keep me safe the NSA reading my emails, or your emails, or my neighbors emails? Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? I'm not in that much fear of terrorism that I believe they need to invade people's privacy like that.

Anyways.. it all comes down to this... their secret program, agreed upon in secret court is unconstitutional. They do not have the right to do what they are doing. And I do not trust them. And not just the petty abuses that could, and I'm sure HAVE occurred with this system... but what about silencing someone? Someone speaks out and needs to be silenced soo... hmm... oh yea PRISM came along and told us he/she was associating with known terrorists.... que the drones.

 

No, they are not. Although I don't doubt it may sometimes be used for that purpose. Read the last paragraph I wrote in the post under yours, okay? And the "if not, then what?" part.... well, then it is time for people to change public opinion to demand to have a say in what constitutional rights need to be kept and what limits need to be put on government.

If nothing else, there needs to be more transparency.

NO MORE SECRET COURTS WITH SECRET COURT RULINGS SAYING THIS STUFF IS CONSTITUTIONAL. They wanna say that, at least put the exact reasons why and the information regarding it out in the OPEN.

 

"time for people to change public opinion". What people and how would it be done?

 

I watched an interview with Ron Paul yesterday, where he said that Obama should send Snowden a thank you card for providing the transparency that he promised in his campeigns.

 

sigh.
seriously.
the public. the people who live here. the people who should demand to be heard and taken seriously and be TOLD things and be given a choice in what freedoms to give up for so-called security.
how would it be done?
talking about it. discussion.
and people who are against it making demands of congress for one.
enough people.
and.... how will it REALLY be done?
more whistle blowing.
until something...an abuse of PRISM for example...actually pisses ppl off. Nothing's gonna change right now, but this is the beginning of change.

Hey... just wanna say first I like your signature and that was the whole point to this thread. lol.

and that's funny...

 

I'll tell you right now 100% Obama is happy right now.
He's happy because this is all that has come out so far about it and no abuses have been reported.

It'll be a matter of time though.
I mean, seriously, I see his face and I can SEE RELIEF.

 

p.s: metadata:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/technolog...hat-is-metadata-nsa-surveillance#meta=0000000

 

@ Odon... yes, it's all about metadata.

(getting off this computer for a bit because son's nap is almost up and this machine sucks time from me but shall check back later)

 

AT. Perhaps you think I was being naive or baiting you. Not so. I want people to define their ideas/terms and how they can be accomplished. I'm not done with this yet,but will return. Thanks for your answers.

 

Yes. And what he has said.

I do not believe what he said was a fair reflection of reality.
To be fair, I have not been able to find the leaked documents.
Have you?
I've just been reading the news reports.

I know. But I did say no to 'snooping'.

I have no idea if the NSA or GCHQ are storing the content of my emails.
But it does not bother me at all (like I said).
I'm 'trusting' the government not to 'snoop' into other more sensitive areas of my life.
I guess there is certain emails that are sensitive.
But I'm not bothered about it.

I do understand your reluctancy to trust the MIB.
It seems very fragmented.
It almost feels like a credit reference agency.
Our system is not the same.
But, you do choose to have the health care system you have, I guess.

I do understand the fragmented nature of your system, so perhaps would not trust your system as I trust my system.

I don't fear anybody being drone striked in the UK.
But do understand why you may.

 

I can't wait for those leaked documents to be posted.

 

My sig change was inspired by, and dedicated to your posts in this thread and others. I wish there were more people like you

 

The first cell phones could be picked up with a scanner ( 800 Mhz) I just assume some one would want to hear my cell phone convo.s I have no idea why tho.

 

I think history has proven people will generally sit back and let their government make things happen. Not all but the majority, and the majority is all a government needs to get away with things.

This is why nazi Germany happened. It is why Communist supporters in the ussr continued to blindly follow the regime even after their food rations started dwindling.

I've heard some really alarming comments from various people since this spy program broke.