LSD and Metaphysics

Discussion in 'LSD - Acid Trips' started by Mr. WigglyFace, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. As conversing in other post I feel as if there has been a debatable inquiry the lsd experience has imposed. While under the influence of lsd or many other psychedelics for that matter you can be taken to "places" you could not normally have gone when sober, and you can speak or interact with "entities" that you may not be able to while completely sober (excluding meditation in both cases). My question is do you believe the places you travel to, and the entities you interact with are real? Secondly do you believe you actually have the ability to leave your body?
    -"material objects do not exist unless perceived and only as perceptions." George Berkeley
     
  2. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

    More notably with DMT and Salvia Divinorum, I have felt that I have gone somewhere that feels 'more real than real' and interacted with autonomous "entities". I try to remain open minded about it but I don't necessarily concern myself about it as much as I used to. With LSD and some other psychedelics, I have felt a sentience and direction to the trip but usually not as thorough a replacement of 'reality.'

    Do you define you as the cohesive sense of consciousness that I currently maintain? If so... Then No, I believe the body needs to be operating on some level for the experience of human consciousness to persist.
     
  3. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    I have never encountered anything like an an entity in an all my psychedelic adventures, nor have I ever gone to an actual physical, geographic location outside the one my body was in. The only thing psychedelics have ever altered in me was my state of mind, my body, my senses, my perceptions and thought patterns.

    The closest thing to "traveling" I've experienced on psychedelics has actually been on high dose Ketamine, where, with eyes closed during a k hole, it often feels like I am floating through the space between galaxies. I know this is not actually the case, because when I open my eyes, I'm in my bed, and I realize that dissociatives simply interfere with your mind to process the concept of "scale", since you are removed from your body and senses which are your only real hold on what scale things are; that's why you sometimes feel as large as a galaxy, other times you feel abstract like an equation, or small like a molecule. But I would never then say "Because I experienced this sensation on ketamine, therefore ketamine allows intergalactic travel".

    Mr. Wigglyface, have you ever encountered sentient entities in your experiences? Have you ever traveled somewhere outside your body? As soon as even one person on earth can prove either assertion, there would be a much more fevered interest in psychedelics from all mankind :)
     
  4. That's very interseting Mr. Writer. I actually have left my body and interacted or more so met another creature or entity from another dimension. The place I actually went to was a large meadow like place it was the most peaceful thing I have ever experienced. I believe this meadow is where you go shortly after you die. I actually heard the voice of other people that were there in spirit form telling me to let go and join them. Now what's strange about the entity I met Is I remember looking at a documentary where a scientist that took lsd described a "door" that you CAN open in your mind that leads "somewhere" I actually closed my eyes and found the door and consciously made the decision to open leave me body and go into darkness where I the entity came shrieking out from the dark! To this day I will never forget what I saw! Even stranger is when I go online to other forums and find that other trippers have met the same entity and have drawn pictures of her!!! I definitely believe There's a link between psychedelics and the manifestation of your spirit through the pineal gland in ourr brains!
     
  5. I agree in the sense that I Don't believe lsd replaces your reality, but that reality is a whole that is seemingly continuous even while on lsd or dreaming so what you experience is real. Dreams/tripping take place in reality therefore they are real. Not in the sense that the "hallucinations" can be experienced through all senses.
    By "me" I mean all that I consist of; mind body and spirit and perhaps more than I can comprehend as my true value or purpose to the entirety that is the universe. I often think of the spirit as the orchestrate the body as the instrument and the music as the mind, or the mind being the product of both the body and spirit.
     
  6. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_


    I thought by reality you were referring to more along the lines of physical, consenual reality. When discussing "entities" I usually figure people are suggesting some sentient, autonomous lifeform of some sort that exists in another dimension.


    If that is how you define you or "me" then you have run into a contradiction. If the essence of "me" consists of body then leaving it would no longer be "me."
     
  7. I know this might sound like a silly question, but is ego death similar to an out of body experience??
     
  8. porkstock41

    porkstock41 stay positive and love your life ~311

    i try not to rule out possibilities like being able to leave your body, but i don't really believe strongly in them either.

    salvia is the only psychedelic that has seemed to replace my reality with a different one, completely. meaning, it didn't matter if i had my eyes open or closed (i dunno which it was honestly)

    on dmt, one time i encountered some seemingly sentient entities, though i realize it could easily have been my imagination. it was more than human looking figures that i've seen in CEVs of things like LSD, 2cb, or 2ce. this thing seemed to have feelings and purpose and separate from me. could have been my expectations or projections though.
     
  9. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    This is not news. I think we know so much more than we realize we do. From the time of being born, everything we see ,regardless if we realize we have seen the inumerable smallest incidences or not,gets stored in our subconscious and becomes available when powerfull psychedlcs are taken. We read,we hear millions of conversations,we see films,watch news,interact with perhaps thousands of people,work,play,school ourselves and absorb everything that happens to us ,around us,,etc,etc. Huge amounts by direct experience and the same by osmosis,as it were.

    I believe ALL this life experience creates an extremely rich pallette from which to draw and IS drawn upon when one is psychedelicized. Like as said about computers--'garbage in-garbage out'. Millions, probably trillions of information bits in--mostly unrecognized--millions,probably trillions available to come out.

    So,I think that the psychedelic experience including out of body,hallucinations,sounds,the distortions,the entities and all the strange,wonderfull or frightening situations that occur come in small measure from the conscious mind and the rest from the subconcious mind of each individual according to what I mentioned. That others cannot see/experience what we see is the way it works and only proves it comes from within--all of it. It makes no sense to me that taking a strong psychedelic releases actual entities that are around just waiting to pounce when such is ingested. Real? Real enough when you're going through it.

    I lived in the jungle on the big island of Hawaii. Old house on a hill with absolutely beautifull jungle stuff(technical term!) and one day when all others I lived with were gone,I took a couple hits of windowpane. I was sitting on the elevated porch just enjoying being alive when everything began to buzz,quietly at first ,but picking up in intensity. My eyesight also began to change and ALL I observed was starting to resemble the color blind tests you see--dots. Soon everything was small dots -the sky-the jungle,the sea-my house including myself and it was then that it struck me that everything in existance is reduced to exactly the same as everything else,conditions being what I observed. Was it real? Was everything buzzing and reduced to a basic form? That one still haunts me in a way,but I'm pretty sure I'm the better for it.

    So I guess real or not real is in the eye of the beholder.
     
  10. inthydreams911

    inthydreams911 Senior Member

    The Mushrooms are alive, they are entities, they do show you other parts of reality. What is not important is the vision, but the force behind the vision. The alien is a part of us, waiting for us, they are realized, full of light, outside the cave, calling to us. They come through us, through this. This isn't solid, far from it, the ethers leak through giving it life. We don't need to leave the body, just the limitation that we are body. We are a this awareness manifesting system, just need to change our perception, zoom out, then the other reality opens.
     
  11. No such thing as a silly question. Yes I beileive that ego death is what allows us to leave our body to visit these other dimensions. I'm almost certain you have to resch ego death too
     
  12. I always tend to think that that these entities aren't in another dimension but in a another galaxy. I mean think about how large the universe is and how tiny we are.
    -----
    Well I Don't believe one being consist of just the body which allows us to still operate even when our body is not functioning. Think about those people that die and then ard recesatated they report leaving their body even though their body is determined deceased. Do I guess the mind body problem again arises as to what or where is the connection between mind and body?
     
  13. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

    No, those are two different phenomenon. For example, in order to have an out of body experience, there has to be a coherent identity which is having the experience, which is leaving the body, which is understanding that it is still "me" but separate from physical form.

    Ego death is the negation of the "me", the "I", so there is nothing that can travel outside of a body to begin with. It's much more radical.
     
  14. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

    If they were to be of our dimension and they travelled galaxies, wouldn't that require others seeing them as well? surely at least your trip partners? Yes, the universe is large, and primarily because of that I'm more skeptical of entities travelling hundreds of thousands of light years because a kid dropped acid or smoke DMT, then I am of those drugs prompting a certain resonance that temporarily attunes one to some neighboring frequencies of a different dimension. A rough metaphor would be temporarily picking up a different station on the radio.

    This concept of invading the entities space rather than they invading ours, is consistent with my trips where I have perceived autonomous entities and I would say some of Terrence Mckenna's musings where he talks about being 'Welcomed' to hyperspace.


    Ok so your definition of "me" is flexible. :)

    Near death experiences are very interesting phenomena and they do raise issues of the mind/body relationship. There was an article posted recently here on the topic and it brought up some interesting points regarding difficulties in measuring such phenomena.

    One similarity I think the psychedelic experience and NDE's share is that there could be a great deal of time distortion. With DMT, a trip that lasts 5 minutes, can seem to have this experience of timelessness to it or at least a heavy sense of distorted time, I'm sure you've experienced time distortion on LSD. Perhaps some people who experience NDE's are getting a similar sense of time distortion both before loss of conscioussness and return of consciousness. I'm not denying their experiences and I haven't read a ton of NDE accounts, but I have read some and perhaps their chronologizing of events May get skewed.
     
  15. acuarela

    acuarela Member

    My first experience with Ketamine was very much like that. I knew what Ketamine was, but I didn't know much about it. We were partying at a friend's house, just a few of us and I kept taking K bumps everytime they offered. I was on a lot of MDMA too, so it was a combination of both. I remember sitting outside in a bench behind the turntables, the music was really loud, but everytime I closed my eyes it was silent and I was floating through this dark open space. Everytime I opened it, I felt trapped by the music, but I could see myself from above, like being in a movie, while directing the movie simultaneously.
     
  16. inthydreams911

    inthydreams911 Senior Member

    The reason one would think it is from a different universe other then our own is the physics as well. If they were a part of our universe they would still have the same physics.

    These alternate dimension, don't follow our rules, they don't have gravity like we do, there is extra dimensions besides the normal 3 were used to, their is a different sense of time, just other rules that would point to these realms being a different "station" altogether, rather then just some further point in our universe.

    Now I have heard that beings exist on Mars and on Saturn, just in high frequency dimensions. Something like this might be possible, maybe even on Earth. The Mayans and some other civilizations just mysteriously disappeared, perhaps they just went to the next level. Perhaps there are higher frequency beings and higher frequency places right hear on earth.

    In fact now that I think of it, I have heard of these higher realms on Earth. They say that their are special places in the Himalayas, like where the Ganges flows from. They say you can't find this place unless you have the spiritual eye or a light body. It exists on another frequency. But those who do see it can see the energy that leaks into the Ganges and why its so special. Its not the water, but what lays behind the water, the secret energy.

    There are so many lays to the onion, it is very difficult to draw a map of to where these substances take you, like Dmt and Lsd. The thing about the space that Dmt takes you is that it so alien, that if you get a total breakthrough, there is nothing in that space which resembles Earth or our universe or our physics or anything, it is something completely different.

    One of the realizations I came to on Dmt though was "its all right here". The main dimension, the central brain in which our universe is just a caveat of is right there, less then a centimeter away. It is right behind this reality, hidden by our perception, we don't need to go anywhere, just turn our view just a centimeter to the right. The universal is right there!!!
     
  17. these places are real. i believe. some raw L and DMT have given me these experiences. salvia too. but i dont really like the salvia entities. the DMT entities are always welcoming. they are always happy to see me it seems. in my mind yes these places and beings ARE real...
     
  18. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

    Yes - reality is defined by the observer - just because it is different to this combined hallucination we on Earth experience in day-to-day life, does not make it any less real... just with different rules.

    I've met some wonderful beings on my trips, some appear to be a reflection of myself - some appear to be other beings.

    Yes and it's been backed up by many experiential reports from various psychedelic users and non-psychedelic users alike report out of body experiences.

    There are far too many reports of such occurences for it to simply be individual imagination or wishful thinking.

    I have personal experience of it and doubted it at first, I don't any more.
     
  19. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

    Care to share a picture if you've found one that's reasonably representative?

    I've seen a few entities repeatedly... one is most commonly known as Gaia or "mother ayahuasca", I believe. Extremely beautiful maternal goddess figure.

    Shrieking sounds a little peculiar as it sounds as if it could have been offputting. In my experiences, she has always presented herself in an very loving and comforting manner... I have really enjoyed spending time with her and have her show me around... always feels like my spirit is getting a nice big warm cuddle. The kind of love I had never previously thought I could experience.

    There is a very loving father figure too, myself and the others around me have interpretted him as a representation of prime creator.

    Then I've seen various reflections of other iterations of myself, various manifestations of the others that i've been tripping with... incredible forms that have not been formed from memories gained in this specific lifetime of mine.

    I think i have come into contact with other beings too, some have identified themselves to me... others have left me to figure it out for myself.

    Since I've had a more open mind about the content of my experiences, I've been presented with some tremendous things such as becoming one with my oversoul and other-dimensional expressions of consciousness.

    Best way to define "me" that I can think of would be...

    My awareness, my position of observation or perception...

    This essence that is using my body to observe this specific world/universe has left this body and this universe and come back again... it appears to have been elsewhere in the past and it will not end when this body dies... that will just lead to the next experience. I'm not certain exactly what that will be, but I have seen a few possibilities and they are all wonderful :sunny:

    No question is silly if you want the answer to it :)

    It's not quite the same, but from my experience... one generally comes with the other, at least to begin with.

    Once first experienced, it seems like you can take more of your ego with you if you choose to... but I have found you have the best experiences if you leave behind your ego to pop back to or build slightly differently upon your return from the experience.

    It seems like your ego is just a set of filters that you learn to integrate best with this specific version of your existence or experience. Dissolving those filters allows you to experience more of yourself and more outside of yourself.

    Shared experiences do happen... there are quite a few reports of that, along with reports of shared dream states and other forms of telepathy.

    I have personal experience of shared states which are not merely illusion, including switching bodies which was rather interesting. It's happened quite a few times to me now, as it has to others i'm with.

    Everything is wave vibration, I think you saw more of that... we don't need to process reality in that way to interact with it... it's part of the hollogram :)

    Exactly :sunny:

    Some of us (if not all) have had experiences in other places within this specific universe and in other universes too. I think some souls have had their first incarnations on this planet, although I'm far from certain on any of these ideas.

    I've seen a Pleiadian incarnation of my wife and I think I've had one myself... I've seen many other forms I have never seen represented or consciously imagined previously too... there's an incredible variety out there waiting to be experienced.
     
  20. tastyweat

    tastyweat Member

    We have been to similar places ;)

    You can reach the same level of experience on LSD too, it's just taken me longer to reach those realms on LSD than it would do on DMT.

    DMT kicks you straight out there, LSD seemingly requires you to lose your emotional baggage before you can elevate your frequency to those levels... perhaps it's because with L, you take more of yourself with you and perceive more... perhaps it's something else or just the kick of DMT is more attuned to that specific type of experience.

    Now on medium doses of LSD I can reach higher dimensional states of being relatively easily... it's all there waiting for us, we just have to remember how to get there if we want to... the knowledge is within all of us.

    I now go to a place where I can completely dismantle this reality and build what I choose to, although it's still very much guided too... I'm learning as I go, it's a wonderful experience... all under the guidance of some fantasic loving beings.

    The benefit of working to get there on LSD is that you get more control over the experience, it feels like you spend a much greater time within the state and you get to bring back more memories.

    DMT + LSD makes the sense of time go bonkers... last time I did that, it felt like I experienced multiple lifetimes in a single night... and that was before my breakthrough spiritual experience... I've yet to combine the two again since then... I'm very much looking forward to taking that combo again.

    According to Sproggy, it shoots you straight up to higher dimensions very quickly and keeps you there for a long time rather easily.
     

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