Leather from charity shops...

Discussion in 'Vegetarian' started by John221, Jan 22, 2006.

  1. TokeTrip

    TokeTrip Senior Member

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    Are you unable to read? You mentioned the people in Africa we send food to. how they hell are you goign to find one of them that is too fat.

    Vegetarianism is much lighter on Nature, yes, but see, disrupting the food chain by only eating plants is just as bad :D
     
  2. TokeTrip

    TokeTrip Senior Member

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    You missed my point. When the inconveinence outweighs the benefit to mother nature, you just stop caring. And whine more. ;)
     
  3. homeschoolmama

    homeschoolmama Senior Member

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    Uh, I'm an obese vegetarian. And so far I haven't lost a single pound, though I've only been veggie since Thanksgiving.
    love,
    mom
     
  4. Fifty9

    Fifty9 Member

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    What does this even mean?

    Not all vegetarian/vegan diets are healthy. The absence of animal foods is good, but replacing them with vegetable oils and refined foods will present their own associated health problems. Not that I'm talking about you, just things I see among people who make the switch.
     
  5. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    Sorry, I'm a vegetarian...and I don't whine. Mother Nature benefits from me being a vegetarian...and I'm a vegetarian always...not when it's convenient to me.
     
  6. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    The point is...they don't need to eat fattening foods. You can get all the nutrients you need from plants. Look it up. You're a meat eater, I'd expect you to be ignorant on facts about vegetarianism

    Totally disrupting the food chains? Sorry, factory farming isn't part ofthe food chain. If we were all hunting our own food, then the food chain would be affected. Factory farming is NOT creating a part of the food chain. That is a ridiculous argument. There is nothing natural or balanced about factory farming.
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    who defines what is natural?
     
  8. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    Natural as in going with the way nature is intended. I understand the concept of hunting. At least here in the Midwest, since our ancestors here killed all of the natural predators of deer, killing them and using every part of them retains the balance of nature...

    I don't hunt, I don't eat any meat...mostly because I have a hard time looking at an animal and wanting to eat it. I believe every animal has a soul...and I don't want to be the one to kill it and steal its life...I just can't.
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Whoa, thats a deep thought. who knows what 'nature intended?"

    How can we be sure that Nature didnt intend for Humans to fly to the moon or create toxic chemicals?

    maybe nature intended us to eat meat? Maybe you are unnatural?

    p.s. i dont think you are. But, i dont think anyone can say something is natural or unnatural.
     
  10. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    Take humans out of the picture.

    What a perfect world it would be. Mother Nature works in ways that humans cannot copy. Everything in nature works together. Everything is connected. It's beautiful...and humans ruin it by entering it and destroying everything in our paths to get exactly what we want.

    Being a vegetarian means living lighter on the earth...and as of right now, I'm doing the best I can. I hope to improve the way I fit into nature...but it is a process. I am by no means perfect, but the longer I live, the more things I learn, and the more I can live in harmony with nature.

    I don't think Mother Nature intended to put all of her children (the animals) in tiny stalls, with very little room to move. It seems too cruel for something/someone so beautiful.

    Of course, I can't say exactly what Mother Nature thinks. I just know the beautiful things she created...and factory farming is NOT beautiful.
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    We are not the only 'destructive' force in nature. Other animals(and non sentient beings) have caused inbalances in the 'perfect world.'

    True, but a wolf slaughtering a sheep seems kinda cruel too. Better that they get to roam in wide open pastures protected from wolves...

    Nature isnt less cruel.

    Agreed, its not.
     
  12. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    I'm saying that without humans. Things are in balance. We are the only beings who make CHOICES. We choose to be destructive to our environment and we can CHOOSE to eat meat. Other animals are living on instinct.

    Sheep are domesticated by humans, we put them all in one area...the wolf's instinct is to find food...anywhere. Since there are so many sheep all in one area, it's a McDonald's for wolves. Sheep have no defense skill...or very little, at least. If we didn't put them together, en masse, and didn't inturrupt the wolves natural habitats, they wouldn't be attacking the sheep.
     
  13. Panik

    Panik Member

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    DancerAnnie, being a VEGETARIAN for the sake of the animals is the biggest hypocrisy of all. If you care about the treatment of the animals on these farms, you would start by being vegan...cutting out meat and not using leather is absolutely pointless if you're still sucking the teet of a damn cow. Seriously, animal by products are just as cruel.
    From there if one were very serious about not harming animals they would grow their own food and fibres to make their clothes etc. etc. I hope to get to that point someday but for now I am at least avoiding animals products to the best of my ability(in our society this is just not possible, I eventually hope to not be a part of "society" but it is not feasible just yet).
    Honestly I find your preaching very annoying when you aren't even fully commiting yourself to this cause.

    Being a vegetarian for the sake of animals is a complete joke.
     
  14. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    I didn't claim to be perfect, Panik. You're going a little overboard. Life is a process of improving oneself...currently I'm working on becoming vegan. It's not easy...I don't claim that it's easy to become vegan or vegetarian. No one is perfect. I live in a small farming community...I have to drive thirty minutes to even find vegetarian food...let alone vegan.

    I am a vegetarian for many reasons...and I want to be vegan for the reasons that you've provided. I'm already drinking organic rice milk and have stopped eating eggs. Ice cream is my one vice. If only I can get used to THAT taste and wean myself off of Cold Stone ice cream.

    You're being totally unreasonable...you're very black and white aren't you? The world is very gray. It's not easy to go from eating meat to becoming vegan. It is a process, just like life is. I'm not criticizing people for what they do...I'm just defending my beliefs.

    Being a vegetarian saves more animals lives than being a meat eater...maybe not saving as many lives as being a vegan, but it is a start.
     
  15. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    So, if one animal completely oblierates another..the world is in balance...but if we oblierate an animal, its out of whack?

    Thats whack.

    Sheep wouldnt magically be protected from wolves because they werent domesticated.

    Regardless, nature is not humane. It is cruel and it is unforgiving.
     
  16. Panik

    Panik Member

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    Fair enough I guess. Your posts in this thread struck as very "high and mighty" which I feel is totally unwarranted. Maybe it's just the internet, I could have misread the tone of your posts. I'm sorry for being so rash, I'll admit I have lost most tolerance for preachy vegetarians! You may not have meant to seem preachy but it did strike me that way.
    It's good to know you have vegan aspirations. ;) Haha.

    Honestly I've found it quite easy to be vegan and still be relatively healthy. I don't have a job and have traveled with no money and still find ways to remain vegan and I am in fact a little overweight! For those who say veganism is too difficult, so not true! You just have to be resourceful (dancerannie this is not directed at you really, just a random thought put out there...namely for whoever said they've never seen an obese vegetarian or something).
     
  17. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    Because we have freedom of choice...they don't. That's their instinct.
    Being domesticated means they aren't use to outside influences. The parents of these sheep couldn't teach them HOW to defend themselves...sometimes lambs are taken from parents while they are young...and even the parents, now, don't know how to defend themselves anymore to teach the youngins.

    Nature is balanced, that's my point. It may not be forgiving, but it's balanced. Just how Mother Nature intended.
     
  18. DancerAnnie

    DancerAnnie Resident Beach Bum

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    I didn't mean to come off has high and mighty, at all. I've just researched a lot on the environmental benefits of vegetarianism (I'm an environmental studies major) and have had to write MANY papers on the subject. I was having a hard time sitting back and letting people argue silly reasons why vegetarianism ISN'T good on the environment. Which is sort of what this thread turned out to be...and has evolved in a curious way. I also tend to get on the defensive when people question my vegetarianism...because I do feel strongly about it, for a variety of reasons.

    I guess my love for ice cream has really gotten in the way...and as a fulltime college student and working fulltime, I've found it difficult to find vegan options when on the run. I've been working on getting meals organized AHEAD of time and warming them up when I'm hungry...but it's a lifestyle that I have to adapt to.

    Again, I wasn't trying to upset anyone, I just wanted to get facts straight. I think a lot of times people have misconceptions about vegetarianism and veganism that just aren't true...and I think it's our jobs as vegans and vegetarians to educate people on the real facts. Just a thought.
     
  19. Panik

    Panik Member

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    Ice cream...yeah I know. I love the stuff, and vegan ice cream is so, so delicious. I've never had trouble finding it even at regular grocery stores. Maybe it's different in your area.
    I eat waaaaaaaaay too much soy delicious and tofutti.
    I think a lot of it is made with refined sugar which is unfortunate because I'm trying to avoid that as well...
     
  20. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Much good that does for nature or the animals that get slaughtered because their predators killed out of 'instinct'



    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
     

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