Kundalini The Key/Yoga Sadhana The Way/Love The Basis

Namaste. Greetings to Xexon, BlackbillBlake, Bhaskar, for my long absence. I have been in an extended transition and had abondoned the web for over a year.

Reviewing some of the stuff on here, such as the long monologue by guys such as "Param", back in August, and their total ignorance and Maya about God, I am sickened by their attempt to drown others in their darkness.

You guys really have to put up with some bull. Men like this man are what I call "religionists". They speak purely from the ego and the vantage point of some Guru who never obviously experienced Samadhi. These people make extremely grandiose statements such as that the Upanishads make no reference to the cakras and that the Kundalini is imaginary. As a matter of fact, "imaginary" sems to be one of his favorite terms. Actually, his consciousness is imaginary.

In fact, all true scriptural knoweledge about the cakras and Kundalini comes from the Upanishads and the Tantras, the Yohashikaupanishad and the Yogachudhamany Upanishad to name only two. There are dozens. And, the Gita does discuss Kriya structured type Yogas, and unknown to most, the Gita, with all respects to my beloved Lord Krsna, is a "yogic primer", due to its vastness covering so many themes.

Additionally, alot of the Gita is ignored with various religious sytems picking and choosing what they utilize out of it, just like the Bible is done. I have been studying the Gita since the sixties and have been a practicing Krsna devotee. I insert this stuff just to say I am quite familiar with the text.

But too move on, the with statement that the Kundalini is imaginary I will move to the point of this thread, which is why there are indeed consciousness advancing systems that avoid Kundalini, or there are so-called Kundalini experiencers that have a limited understanding of God or divine conscioiusness. How is this?

Here I will set some spiritual precedence for the sake of space simplicity.
First, the cakras, beginning with Sahasrara, are consciousness reductionistic mechanisms.What do they reduce? They reduce the omnipresent, omniscient God Mind/Self of Parambrahma/Paramsiva/Sac-cid-ananda down to our experience of ego self. This entire process is driven by Kundalini prana. Kundalini is a divine condensing mechanism, and it coils the pure God mind down and down to the purley elemental butas which ultimately become our bodies.

Various upper cakras such as the Ajna, create various higher pranic fields in this process, one of which is identified as the "atma". But if and when you get the Kundalini Devi into the Sahasrara, you find that the atma is not really a substantial entity, as only the overall Paramatma which projects it, is.

Now, the ajna field of self, spirit, soul, can be experienced through dozens of yoga/meditation systems, "WITHOUT" Kundalini arousal. Hence, the disavowance of Kundalini significance, need, or even existence. BUT, and make no mistake here, you cannot get to Sahasrara without her total awakening and desent w/o some extreme act of Grace.

Anyway, I have great compassion for you men who have these great inquiries into the Self/God/Consciouness, and wish that you could realize that the talking forum is a blockage to what you seek. In fact, a verse out of the Siva Sutras says, "Jnanam Bandha", knowledge is bondage, refering of course to cognitive seeking and utilization.

The mind is a block, my beloved brothers and sisters. The pranic and cakra structure must be awakened and opened via the sadhana practice. THis has been my experience, and it continues to lead this being to higher and more intense states of everyday living bliss and consciousness. It is there for you also. Love to you all, Namaste, Bhairava Atmabhoda Sarasvati (rick hortman)

 

Hare Krishna !


From Yogi Bhairava :

.......And, the Gita does discuss Kriya structured type Yogas, and unknown to most, the Gita, with all respects to my beloved Lord Krsna, is a "yogic primer", due to its vastness covering so many themes. ........


Dear,

It's nice to see you back. Thanks for the post. I love the above quote but does it end there just by being a 'primer' only ?

Love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna !


Love is the basis, Love is the way and Love is the key.

Loving all as your beloved God ? Kulakundalini will wake up automatically. Well, ways are so many but 'prem' makes you see God at all times, everywhere and in every conceivable thing, animate or inanimate. It sees God alone and nothing else, there is no vichar of the ways and means of awakening of Kundalini. Everything happens automatically like slides, one after the other. Best 'sadhana' is to learn to love all as our own selves.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Bright Blessings & Namaste ~~*

Hare Krsna

 

Namaste Prabhu Kumar,
If Kundalini woke up automatically, She would be out of Her mode as ego projector pravritti and thrusting man into their total consciouseness of immanant siva as sac-cid-ananda. As a matter of fact, the Gaudiya Math sampradaya at most Krsna centers echew impersonal Brahman in their everyday Sunday feast lectures. I am a frequent contributor to both the Radha Krsna Mandir in New Orleans and attend the Sunday feast, as well as the New Talavan Sri Sri Gour Nitai Mandir in Carrier Mississippi. I am personal friends with its president, Yogindra Vandana Das Adhikari, but our great gulf of differences as far as spiritual awareness, goes largley undiscussed.

Not only this, but there are several initiated Hare Krsna devotees that I myself introduced to Lord Krsna, over forty years ago. But heavy karma and spiritual disenfranchisment lead me to seek the level of absolute as described by the original Nath Yogins of the ancient days of India. Thus, Siva lead me to the Lotus feet of the Divine Mother, the Kundalini.

I attend these places out of my own awareness of Krsna being Isvara. But I can wholeheartedly assure you, that my attempts in conversation to discuss the higher ramifications of absolute divine reality out of the religious boxes these people live in is a waste of time. In fact, they sound much like the Biblicists, who claim, stay with this, these book studies and this simple religious worship is sufficient to experience the absolute as a DAILY SUBJECTIVE STATE. Meanwhile back at the ranch, outside of temple life, as all of them basically live as householders, something I heard Swami Prabhupada say to avoid at all costs, and is these peoples secondary/yet primary intersests. I wish I had a dollar for all of the trully advanced devotees from the old days, that I know all eventually have fallen having been involved in crazy domestic sex squabbles. I am not condemning these people. I love them all, have known them for many years, and have great compassion for their karmic predictament. And of course others of various sects have fallen too.

But the simple fact is, karma is our predicament, and reading books that describe "how God is" and singing the Bhajans does not slash the karmic bondage, as awakening the Devi as a being which thrusts the Yogin through an intense ascent and descent transition.

So, to simply acclaim that everything awakens Kundalini, is not accurate at all. Book knowledge, a cheery heart towards a mental fixation of a divine image held cognitively, is not samadhi.

The differences between these states are not hard to discern. If you have been to New York city, or live there, and the person you are speaking to claims the same, yet has no awareness of anything there, well?

But as far as the deeper philosophic stance that most Gaudiya Math followers adhere to, a quote from Christ fits very well here. "Whoa unto you scribes and Pharisees, for neither you enter in, nor do you allow others too". Namaste

P.S. If you have not followed an actual Yoga Tantra sadhana throughout its total fruition, it would not be proper to simply relegate it as the same as everything else. I have lived the Bhakti Yoga as a total means,for years and years, and have chanted hundreds of thousands of rounds of Hare Krsna, Gayatri, and the Panca Tattva Mantra. All I can say is praise the Lotus feet that I was moved to seek further.
My original thread statement was in reference to someone back in August, who made claims about what was and was not in the Gita, Upanishads and so forth.

As far as the Gita goes, it is considered a primer Yogic Text, it is simply too vast to be applied othewise, although it does explain karma yoga to a complete degree, and touches lightly on other systems. Remember, when Arjuna asked Krsna what to do, Krsna said go to nature and practice yoga meditation. Then after Arjuna's complaints, did Krsna moderate his stance.
P.P.S. It is Lord Krsna indeed, who sent me in search of the primoridal Devi.

 

It is the same all over the world. Direct perception has been traded for belief.

The rest of us spend our days with them, watching them stumble through life as if they were locked in a dark room and unable to see.

I am a yogi. Never initiated. Never chanted or worshipped another. Never involved myself in the religious overtones of yoga. If you see a singular conciousness, what is there to worship?

Even Kundalini can become a middleman to the divine where one is not needed.

Use, and let go of.


x

 

Overall, an excellent post with some very good and salient points.

I don't think I can add anything, but on the topic of the Gita, I think of it as a kind of summary - it gives the essence of things. The detailed knowledge of the actual practice of various yoga systems is indicated, but is to be studied or learned elsewhere.

To explain what I mean further and hopefully avoid misunderstandings, in the Bible Jesus says 'love one another'. That is the essence. The actual modes which the practice of love might take aren't spelled out in detail.

 

Hare Krishna !

Dear Sylvanlightning,

Namaste. Showering blessings of the Lord on you.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna !

From Yogi Bhairava .....

Namaste Prabhu Kumar,
If Kundalini woke up automatically, She would be out of Her mode as ego projector pravritti and thrusting man into their total consciouseness of immanant siva as sac-cid-ananda. As a matter of fact, the Gaudiya Math sampradaya at most Krsna centers echew impersonal Brahman in their everyday Sunday feast lectures. I am a frequent contributor to both the Radha Krsna Mandir in New Orleans and attend the Sunday feast, as well as the New Talavan Sri Sri Gour Nitai Mandir in Carrier Mississippi. I am personal friends with its
president, Yogindra Vandana Das Adhikari, but our great gulf of differences as far as spiritual awareness, goes largley undiscussed.
Not only this, but there are several initiated Hare Krsna devotees that I myself introduced to Lord Krsna, over forty years ago. But heavy karma and spiritual disenfranchisment lead me to seek the level of absolute as described by the original Nath Yogins of the ancient days of India. Thus, Siva lead me to the Lotus feet of the Divine Mother, the Kundalini. I attend these places out of my own awareness of Krsna being Isvara. But I can wholeheartedly assure you, that my attempts in conversation to discuss the higher ramifications of absolute divine reality out of the religious boxes these people live in is a waste of time. In fact, they sound much like the Biblicists, who claim, stay with this, these book studies and this simple religious worship is sufficient to experience the absolute as a DAILY SUBJECTIVE STATE. Meanwhile back at the ranch, outside of temple life, as all of them basically live as householders, something I heard Swami Prabhupada say to avoid at all costs, and is these peoples secondary/yet primary intersests. I wish I had a dollar
for all of the trully advanced devotees from the old days, that I know all eventually have fallen having been involved in crazy domestic sex squabbles. I am not condemning these people. I love them all, have known them for many years, and have great compassion for their karmic predictament. And of course others of various sects have fallen too.But the simple fact is, karma is our predicament, and reading books that describe "how God is" and singing the Bhajans does not slash the karmic bondage, as awakening the Devi
as a being which thrusts the Yogin through an intense ascent and descent transition.So, to simply acclaim that everything awakens Kundalini, is not accurate at all. Book knowledge, a cheery heart towards a mental fixation of a divine image held cognitively, is
not samadhi.The differences between these states are not hard to discern. If you have been to New York city, or live there, and the person you are speaking to claims the same, yet has no
awareness of anything there, well?But as far as the deeper philosophic stance that most Gaudiya Math followers adhere to, a quote from Christ fits very well here. "Whoa unto you scribes and Pharisees, for neither you enter in, nor do you allow others too". Namaste
P.S. If you have not followed an actual Yoga Tantra sadhana throughout its total fruition, it would not be proper to simply relegate it as the same as everything else. I have lived the Bhakti Yoga as a total means,for years and years, and have chanted hundreds of thousands of rounds of Hare Krsna, Gayatri, and the Panca Tattva Mantra. All I can say is praise the Lotus feet that I was moved to seek further. My original thread statement was in reference to someone back in August, who made claims about what was and was not in the Gita, Upanishads and so forth.As far as the Gita goes, it is considered a primer Yogic Text, it is simply too vast to be applied othewise, although it does explain karma yoga to a complete degree, and touches lightly on other systems. Remember, when Arjuna asked Krsna what to do, Krsna said go to nature and practice yoga meditation. Then after Arjuna's complaints, did Krsna
moderate his stance.
P.P.S. It is Lord Krsna indeed, who sent me in search of the primoridal Devi.

Dear Yogi Bhairava,

Namaste. Thank you for your wonderful post, which I think I understand.
With my little and simple understanding I always feel that most of us are just book-knowledge-pundits and hypocrites. However, contrary to your belief, I believe and accept that any Yogic Karma (Kriya or process) is good enough to awaken the Divine Serpentile power if we truly follow the particular Yoga that is being practised. We try to connect but we do not really bother about the other end which is to be connected. At the time of yoga practice the other end (The Divine, the cognitive object) is mostly not there. So, instead
of doing yoga we do more of a farce every time. Let it be Bhakti, Karma or any other yoga, every attempt fails because we don't have faith, sincerity and patience. Nothing happens overnight and "Abhyasam hi kevalam" (Habit formation is the only way.) is the only means. For every individual there is a certain choice of path where he finds himself comfortable and advancing.Your post is very beautiful and I agree on most of your observations. I also loved to read Xexon's post, he said his views so nicely. But I must say that it appears to me that both of you avoided or missed out the issue of "Prarabhdha". We believe in the process of rebirth and evolution through that. Why everybody cannot think so beautifully like
"Xexon" or think like the way you do ? Why two 5-year old children from the same class of families differ so widely ? You said irrespective of everything you love them all and that is the way. Tomorrow they will be in your position. That has to happen to all.You and I, all have taken our time to come to where we are.Our biggest problem is we do things just for the sake of doing them. We meditate, we sing Bhajans and dance, we say "I love you" countless times but where is God in those efforts ? How many do everything with focus and love for God in his heart at the time of all these activities. And those who try honestly do get frustrated in seven days saying nothing is happening. Then where is the faith ? Want to be one with the Ocean without its tides !

There was this beautiful quote from my dear friend 'BBB' in the thread, "Inspiring Quotes From Hinduism And Other Sources":
"Meditation is one means of approach to the divine and a great way, but it cannot be called a short cut - for most it is a most long and difficult though a very high ascent.................Love, Bhakti,
surrender, the psychic opening are the only short-cut to the divine - or can be; for if the love and bhakti are too vital, then there is likely to be a seesaw between ecstatic expectation and viraha, abhiman (hurt love), despair etc., which make not a short-cut but a long one, a zigzag, not a straight flight, a whirling round one's own ego instead of a running towards the divine."
Sri Aurobindo - letter December 10th 1934.
(A word of explanation - by 'vital' Sri Aurobindo means if the love is too tangled up in the ordinary outer emotional nature, rather than based in the psychic or soul-consciousness which exists deep within, behind the ordinary surface consciousness)


The great Yogi said so many things in these few lines ! Where is that Love, Bhakti and Surrender ? We talk so much about love and sickeningly used "I Love You" but remember dear Xexon's earlier signature photograph ? God, how can we do that, pumping bullet into that tiny baby ? But we did it. So, where has the love gone ? So, it's not the Kriya or Karma, first of all God should be in one's mind at all times to do any thing properly. Looking at the present plight of ours, I feel like crying all the time.

We don't need any God, any understanding of Kulakundalini, salvation or any spiritual development. Right now, we need to go back to the primary schools to learn our basic educations properly all over again. I am sorry for my probably-disturbing emotions. Thanks for patient reading.


With love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna !

From Xexon....

......I am a yogi. Never initiated. Never chanted or worshipped another. Never involved myself in the religious overtones of yoga. If you see a singular conciousness, what is there to worship?

Even Kundalini can become a middleman to the divine where one is not needed.


Dear Xexon,

That's wonderful brother ! Wish I could feel and say alike. Truly, if you see a singular conciousness everywhere including yourself, there is nothing to worship. Oh, it is really wonderful ! Thank you for bringing that gush of fragrant breeze in my dull days.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Hare Krishna !

From BBB.....

Overall, an excellent post with some very good and salient points.

I don't think I can add anything, but on the topic of the Gita, I think of it as a kind of summary - it gives the essence of things. The detailed knowledge of the actual practice of various yoga systems is indicated, but is to be studied or learned elsewhere.

To explain what I mean further and hopefully avoid misunderstandings, in the Bible Jesus says 'love one another'. That is the essence. The actual modes which the practice of love might take aren't spelled out in detail.


Dear brother BBB,

An ignorant baby does not need to be given the practices of how to love. The baby laughs and cries as the mother does so. But pity us that Jesus had to tell us 'Love one another'. Our ego, narrowness and selfishness dry up our natural love and feelings for others and it draws a very small circle for 'Me and mine' group.

As Xexon said, the day we can see one conciousness everywhere including ourselves, we will reach that goal of having universal love for all.

Love,

Kumar.

 

We are all leaves on the same God tree.

Individual by nature, yet joined at the base.

I cannot imagine life in Calcutta, yet millions of people call it home. Individuals tightly grouped together, yet they still don't blend together to form one person.

So it is with all of us. On the outside.

Inside, is the only thing we truly have in common.



x

 

Hare Krishna!

From Xexon......

We are all leaves on the same God tree.
Individual by nature, yet joined at the base.

I cannot imagine life in Calcutta, yet millions of people call it home. Individuals tightly grouped together, yet they still don't blend together to form one person.

So it is with all of us. On the outside.
Inside, is the only thing we truly have in common.

Dear Xexon,

Thanks for yet another beautiful post. I agree cent per cent.

Calcutta, my home, is a wonderful city where, when you come, you will be surprised by the multifariousness of the city and its people. You will find co-existence of every conceivable thing on earth. You will be elated and next moment you will be dejected. It is place of mixture between beauty and ugliness.


With the Indian uplift in economy, Calcutta has also got its share. Life has become much faster here. Everybody is on the run to cope up with the demands from both the sides. Level of education is going up everyday but level of humanity is going down very fast. " I and my " has become the 'japa mantra'. It has become a perfect mad-house with all sorts of practices going on as routines. With the new high-tide the successful(!) people are attending the 'Art of Living' classes in various forms. And the aspiring class of people are jumping up and down and running aimlessly to somehow, by hook or by crook, make it for a better present-day-life style. And it is better not to talk about girls and the women folks. I feel sick thinking about tomorrow's mothers.

In the process of this churning, people like me are only wondering about the appaling very dark future of man-kind, it gives me morbidity and at times derangement.

However, life must go on everywhere and it will go on here as well. Looking forward to having the beautiful end, death, which knowingly or unknowingly we always wait for.

Sorry for all negative talks. Please cheer up looking at the new morning sun-rise.

Lots of love,

Kumar.

 

I've lived in some smaller cities. That was enough for me.

Now I live in a coastal rainforest, where I can often go to the beach and have it all to myself. Wild country around here. Clean air, clean water. Quiet. I don't even lock my door at night.

But despite all this, it's nothing but a part of the passing show.

Someday, we will leave this theater and return to our "normal" state of being on the outside of it. Everybody is heading in this direction, but most do not understand the process and resist it with all their earthly might. Individuality is what they fear losing.

Life is made more meaningful by helping such people along.



x

 

Well I don't want to go off the topic too much, but worth noting that Jesus said he came to save those who have gone astray, not the righteous.
'Gone astray' though in this context would mean most of the world I think.

 

It's actually possible that there is a parallel or link between Indian teachings on Kundalini and some beliefs of the old Gnostic schools of early Christianity.

Generally in the west, the serpent has been regarded as a symbol of evil, because of the role of the serpent in the book of Genesis in tempting Eve.
However, some gnostics believed that the serpent is a symbol of knowledge, and identified the God of genesis as an evil entity, the demiurge,who sought to keep man enslved by ignorance and the serpent in the garden as Christ, who came to give Adam and Eve true knowledge or gnosis (it was the fruit of the tree of knowledge they ate).

 

Adam is the incarnate soul. A neutral particle.

Eve is the human mind that the soul has to slip into to enter this existance. A "thinking" machine. Remember HAL in 2001?

Now the charge of the human identity takes on positive or negative qualities, depending of the ratio of thought versus feel. The mind cannot feel, it can only weigh evidence. Only the heart feels.

It is this intuitive nature that takes you home. Once you wrestle it away from the mind.

It is the same simple formula, that religions have made such a mess out of.



x

 

OK. Just to clarify my own position - I'm not saying that the gnostics I mentioned were correct or incorrect in their view. Symbols only have the significance that human beings invest in them. There are different interpretations and levels in genesis. I was only introducing a fragmentary bit of info because there might appear to be a some parallel between this and the Indian teachings on kundalini.

I'm not sure that eve represents the mind though, or adam the soul. I'd say the soul was incarnate in adam, who possesed all the human faculties including mind.

Also, 'intuition' is a term that needs to be defined. I don't think it really means 'feeling', but a mode of mental knowledge higher than or transcending the rational or merely logical.

 

I use the term so that laymen can follow along.

Just as the eyes see light, the heart sees beyond the physical realm. It's just another kind of sensory organ really, but one that only activates when you can handle the amperage it delivers. Even then, the mind can only handle so much at one time. Can't stick a penny in the fusebox with this. It has to be done correctly or it doesn't work.

You have to get over yourself first. The idea of self, that is.

And you have to be rewired from the lousy job you did as a selfish person addicted to sensation. You can look at it now and say "what was I thinking?"

Thinking cannot reveal what you seek.



x

 

Namaste Prabhujis,
The Garden of Eden story is a metaphor for the ongoing dynamic descent of cit-consciousness into citta as ourselves, as we speak.
Adam is Isvara, Eve is Isvari, and the serpent is Isvari Kundalini as She takes the inquiry of finite selfhood into Her own divine consciousness, resulting in the quest for ego self fulfillment through karmic desire.
Thus the so-called wisdom or knowledge attained by eating the forbidden fruit is the thrust of the causal divine into the illusion of duality, "our Maya". There is no knowledge to be attained by being deluded by the illusory realm of good and evil, only further ego self bondage into samsara and the subsequent karmas. Thus the rejection from the garden of the divine mind.
As is stated in the second verse of the Siva Sutras, to through a verse in here, "Jnanam Bandha", knowledge is bondage. What knowledge? Any knowledge. For knowledge is not what God wants for his own mind, that our experiential personality forms a dust covering over. What He wants, is to be able to re-realize Himself by the complete experience of total reversal of the consciousness descent, back into Kundalini prana consciousness ascent, the Maha BIndu Sahasrara state of Cit-Ananda, while yet living as an enitity encapsulated as one yet physical.
Love you guys, not trying to preach, just speaking from my own consciousness transition that is continuing to confirm what the practices I do reveal.
And just for the record, I am also totally self taught, and was only offered initiation into the Sarasvati lineage after books I published confirmed the successful transition of the sadhana now on going for over fifteen years done daily.
Additionally, Genesis 28, verse 12, the dream of Enoch I believe, where He sees angels descending up and down a ladder down to earth and back up, is another example of the descent of divine consciousness back down to re-birth, and up again. Religions code and color the absolute, for the lesser minds of mind. Tantra cuts to the quick, because realization is blatant and accordingly should be sought by those seeking the real.

Om Namah Sivaya Bhairava Atmabhoda