Kerry essentially endorses the Bush policy on Iraq

awesome

so we're being held responsible how?

I've never been treated poorly anywhere since bush took office because i'm an american. In that time i've been all over western europe, several countries in asia and australia. I've been treated great everywhere. Maybe all the ones holding americans responsible are hiding out in africa and south america.

So we're being held responsible how exactly?

p.s. i sleep great. I know..i'm ignorant and in denial. Oh well.

 

Right on all the way Midnight!!!!

"And this coming from someone who actually voted for Kerry. Ha ha."


Whoa! he got ya there Ellis!! Did you really vote for Kerry?? If ya did, why? You can't claim the "lesser of 2 evils" myth, plus the Dems always win New Jersey anyway.
How could you!? lol

Like Midnight, at least I can claim I'm guilt free, I voted Nader in both 2000 and 2004 - out of sheer principle obviously, as there's no way a 3rd party would have won in either year. But it's just the point that I have never, and WILL never vote for a member of the 2party Empire, whether it be for senate, congress, president, or anything else.

--Revo sighs in relief

Fuck the 2party monopoly. A vote for a Dem or Repub is a vote for your own oppression, unless you make over $100,000 a year...

Green thumb, I agree with your point man, but for the sake of diplomacy, CHILL!! Both you and Ellis made great points...and we've now FINALLY learned our lesson about the Democrats, right? So like you said, let's move on and COME TOGETHER and stop bickering with eachtoher! There are enough rightwing trolls (and innocent misled folks, however sparce in here) to argue with and enlighten, hopefully.

 

Ha, no surprise that you voted Bush (megara). I suspected it with your stupid remark about the Indian activist/professor, but now my opinion of you is confirmed.

Maybe the reason you didn't get any shit from anyone overseas was because you didn't TELL anyone you were a Bush supporter.

Well, at least you can admit what a fool you choose to be.

 

I participated in the "Vote Swap" program, aka "Nader Trader". I paired up with a Kerry supporter in a solidly repug state (Utah), who agreed to cast my vote for Nader in UT, while I cast his vote for Kerry here in NJ, where the race was being projected close enough that Kerry supporters were getting worried.

So while I actually pulled the lever for Kerry (while holding my nose), it was only because my Nader vote was being registered elsewhere. Without the assistance of the VoteSwap program, there is NO WAY that I would have gone Kerry. I voted Nader in 1996 and 2000, as well....

 

oh that's cool. they did that in 2000 as well!

yeah I can believe that it was a close call in NJ. Let's face it, there are A LOT of dumb fucks in this state. Why do you think New Jersey has been the butt of jokes on television for decades? Honestly, I think that NJ would be a traditionally republican state were it not for the numerous urban cities with a huge minority population. Thank God most of them retain some brain cells. But if I can make a racist generalization for one second (and I apologize), many, if not most white folks in NJ are pretty stupid people. Sorry, but there is plenty of evidence to back that up. And I can say so, I've lived among these sad people for more than 20 years.

You wouldn't believe how many young people in NJ I've heard say they support Bush "because he's cool". Then they'll go blast their pussy dance music from their high-priced car stereo systems at 11 at night.

 

You are brilliant. Where did i say who i voted for? I voted for kerry this past election..i was not old enough in 2000.

It seems that you are the only one caught up by the fact that ward churchill is an american indian. I've never commented negatively about his heritage. You just try to slander anyone who has views you dont like.

 

"I've never been treated poorly anywhere since bush took office because i'm an american."

I apologize, I mistook this statement as you saying you were a Bush supporter. And I was talking about this past election.

But you're right if you're saying that we're not hated because people overseas can recognize the difference between the american people vs the american gov't. I'm not putting words in your mouth, but that would definitley help your case if that's what you meant...

"You just try to slander anyone who has views you dont like."

that is true, isn't it. hehe Like you would say..."oh well".
And don't you think it's a fairly reflexive action being that
progressives are continuously slandered and ignored by the
mainstream press?

 

well, i think people do make distictions between the government and the people. Those who dont are pieces of shit.

Lots of people get slandered. Yes, i think its stupid that 'liberal' is virtually a derogatory comment. I think it also wrong how we villify anyone religious as just a 'right wing nut'

 

Luckily I don't consider myself a "liberal". haha

 

Oh, okay, good for you. You're obviously a much better person than me, because we all know voting is the only thing that matters in life.
Don't be stupid.

I'm sure you do sleep well at night knowing Bush is in office because of stubborn, self-applauding brats like you. 100,000 Iraqis dead thanks to your "principles". Makes you sleep like a freaking baby doesn't it?

Oh and I see you listen to the Grateful Dead, that really helps make the world a better place! Thank God for hippies!

 

Funny how you claim Dems and Repubs are "the same", yet you have a problem with the "right-wing trolls" here. Girl, that just doesn't add up. Ellis and others were on my case constantly during the elections for supporting Kerry, so maybe I'm fed up with it especially since that was 2 months ago! He's being hypocritical too, he voted for Kerry. I did too, but I was in a battleground state or I probably would have supported someone else, green party most likely.

 

Well, Bush is president now because we didn't really have anyone else to vote for. Truth is Kerry WASN'T all that different than Bush. I live in Florida and I couldn't bring myself to vote for that dumbass. I don't believe all that much that he would have been a better choice. Maybe anything is better than Bush, but come one he's not the devil, he's just a politician. And aren't they really all the same? We probably have no idea what any of them really stand for. Except the 3rd or 4th party candidates cause they didn't have corporate sponsers to ass kiss. And I really wish people would vote their heart instead of based on what state they're in. Geez if everybody in America who didn't want bush OR kerry would've just voted for Nadar or whoever the green guy was, we would probably have a third or fourth party president right now. Why not? We're not such a small number are we?

"I'm sure you do sleep well at night knowing Bush is in office because of stubborn, self-applauding brats like you. 100,000 Iraqis dead thanks to your "principles". Makes you sleep like a freaking baby doesn't it?"

Hmm, Kerry wouldn't have done anything different you self rightous jerk. I'm sure you sleep well perpetuating the idea that there's nothing we can do but vote for the lessor of two evils. You're also being a hypocrite because you obviously applaud yourself on the fact that you never vote for a third party condidate, even if their views are much better. All politicians at that level are similar at the least. We shouldn't have to compromise our principles just because some cowards are afraid to actually try for change

 

Starfaerie, for the voting system to really work, the electoral college would need to be dismantled. And that'll never happen.


By Green Thumb: "I'm sure you do sleep well at night knowing Bush is in office because of stubborn, self-applauding brats like you."

whoa whoa whoa...you're not gonna pull that senseless drivel that Nader supporters indirectly elected Bush are you? Please say it ain't so!

by Green Thumb: "Funny how you claim Dems and Repubs are "the same", yet you have a problem with the "right-wing trolls" here."

wow, you must be in a pretty shitty mood lately! Um...I don't see what either topic has to do with the other at all. In fact, it sounds exactly like the type of thing a "righting troll" would say. Please make a point, and...smoke a joint. (rhyme intended)

 

We'll never know now will we? Let's see if you still feel this way after Patriot Act II is enacted, another war is waged, maybe a terrorist attack or two (the attacker being our gov.), the environment further damaged...

No, there are some decent politicians out there. Think of all the ones that have been offed.

I'm afraid our numbers are indeed small. Besides, Americans don't what socialism, Nader would be far too extreme for us.

Says you....you can't even spell. Even brilliant folk like Noam Chomsky agree that Kerry would have been different (better) on certain issues. I sleep well knowing that I'm living in an environmentally sound manner and I treat people well and do a lot of good things for people and nature. Who cares who we voted for, the election's over....hello.....

What do we have here now.....a lie. I never said I would never or have never voted 3rd party! In fact, if you were even slightly literate you would have noted that I said if I wasn't voting in an important battleground state I would have. Interesting that Ellis basically did the same thing but no one is jumping all over him....

Someone in this thread claims I'm responsible for all of our societies problems because of how I voted but I'm a jerk huh? Screw you.


I find it odd that you are such an enthusiastic 3rd party voter, yet you can't spell Nader and you don't know that David Cobb was the Green Party candidate. Why don't you just face the fact that it doesn't matter who we vote for, we do not decide who wins an election. Dean wasn't allowed to run and Kerry wasn't allowed (chosen) to win.

 

Maybe because I didn't spend the entire runup to the election ranting against third party efforts, and trying to convince everybody here that they should swallow their principles, ignore history, and vote for the evil of 2 lessers.

Maybe because what I did made sure that a progressive candidate received MY vote, while helping a Kerry supporter desperate to have his vote make a difference in a "battleground state". In short, vote swappers did something to reach out to less radical voters, while you just slung shit at everybody who refused to buy into the Kerry campaign.

Maybe because MY political opinions regarding Kerry as a typical elitist scumbag politician have remained constant before, during, and after the election, while you seemed to abandon your "savior" as soon as the election was over, much as he abandoned his supporters by conceding before all the fucking votes were counted! Now you come on here trying to come across as a dyed-in-the-wool progressive, but when the chips were down, you put your tail between your legs and proudly voted for one of the least progressive candidates in Democratic party history.

 

Here we are in a thread stating Kerry and Bush are about the same, and you're all fighting over who voted for whom. Ridiculous!


This is probably what they want anyways, us fighting over dems and repubs...all the while forgetting that they're not important divisions...

 

"I find it odd that you are such an enthusiastic 3rd party voter, yet you can't spell Nader and you don't know that David Cobb was the Green Party candidate. Why don't you just face the fact that it doesn't matter who we vote for, we do not decide who wins an election. Dean wasn't allowed to run and Kerry wasn't allowed (chosen) to win."

Well, usually people start talking about typos when they dn't have much to say. I mean really, it's pathetic to focus on typos. I apologize for not having as much free time as you, to make sure every word is spelled perfectly. You obviously knew what I was getting at. Give me a break. I also don't care who the green party candidate was, because from the beginning I just liked Nadar. I probably would get mad, except the stuff you tried to insult wasn't important LMAO.

And if we really are such a small number, then us voting for Kerry wouldn't even have made that much difference would it? The election wasn't actually all that close. I do realize that it doesn't matter all that much who we vote for, that's why it's not worth compromising who you really want to vote for.

 

Lets unite together instead of constintly picking at each other! Its agreed that we all dislike Bush, so lets try to find ways to defeat his agenda. We need to protest b/c if we are not careful, Iran & North Korea will be the next targets of a Bush attack. We need unity to fight a much more powerful force than we can imagine, the oil companies. They've got us by the balls w/ gas powered cars & electricity & heat. Together we stand & divided we fall!


peace & love

 

Well, for my part, I don't really think people who don't vote third party are cowards, I was just agitated at the time I wrote it. But I still can't stand it when people focus on unimportant typos.

She's right you know, fighting with each other (when we probably mostly agree for god's sake) isn't going to help. It hasn't yet has it? LOL