Jesus Christ

JESUS CHRIST:
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To say that Jesus was the “Founder” of the Christian religion, is an insult, a slap in the face to Jesus Christ.
He did not come to here to start a new religion. Especially not one as corrupt & warmongering as Christianity. He came to preach & teach the way of love. The philosophy of universal love, nothing less & nothing more. Otherwise, why did he consistently & stubbornly go against the religious traditions of his day? So much so that it cost him his life.
They did not have him killed because of his message of love & sweetness. They killed him because he represented a relentless rebellion against the hypocrisy of the ruling religious system, exposing it & teaching others to be free from it.
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HAVE YOU EVER NOTICED?
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Have you ever noticed, that every single Christian group, sect, denomination or church are DOGMATIC: inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true opinionated, peremptory, assertive, insistent, emphatic, adamant, doctrinaire, authoritarian, imperious, dictatorial, uncompromising, unyielding, inflexible & rigid? And adhering to a certain DOGMA: a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true teaching, belief, tenet, principle, precept, maxim, article of faith, canon; creed, credo, set of beliefs, doctrine & ideology?
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And as they adhere to their particular "dogma" or doctrine very strongly, curiously enough, each one can prove to you "beyond a shadow of a doubt", no matter "how" far-fetched the particular cornerstone of their unique interpretation may be, right out of the bible, that it is the maximum truth. You can't argue: don't waste your time, they have exclusiveness to the one & only true biblical interpretation & everyone else is ignorant or mistaken.
So loving God or Jesus is not enough. And in many cases, no matter how religious or good of a person you are, you will not be able to enter into the Heavenly Kingdom, but are destined to eternal damnation, sad to say, because of the simple failure of not accepting, receiving or believing in "that" particular dogma.
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They range from calling God the Father by his "real" name, or calling Jesus by his original name, or worshipping on a certain day of the week, or by being totally submerged in water, or by speaking in tongues, or by keeping the old commandments & traditions of Moses, or by not eating certain things, or by not sinning, or by not drinking wine, or by practicing "Holiness" of some sort, or by adhering to racial segregation, or by smoking “the herb” or eating some mushroom, or by believing that we are in the end of the world, or by believing & following "the chosen prophet": their are so many different ones now, all with some "new revelation", which is fine, because we need to allow for new thought, but just don't get too fanatical on me, OK? Dogmas.
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Personally I don't think it so important "what" name you call God, as long as you call him, or if you worship on a certain day of the week or maybe everyday, or if you totally submerge yourself in water or maybe just get a little sprinkle, or "what" you may decide to put in your mouth or not, or what Guru you want to follow or not follow, or what pet doctrine you chose, or how you think life will be in God's Kingdom, or if you speak in tongues or not, or if you decide to keep the old traditions or if you deny yourself certain things or not, or if you interpret you should stick to your own race, or if you believe that the Messiah is returning in the year 3000, tomorrow, today or yesterday, as long as you got a little love in your heart.
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You want to hear about the "only" dogma that Jesus Christ upheld? Love: "All you need is Love", like the Beatles sang.
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Since the very beginning of his life he did everything upside down, inside out & went against the religious customs of "his" day.
He did his work on the sabbath day; he ate without washing his hands; he ate & drank with sinners; he turned water into "real" wine, at a party, "after" they had already well drunk, according to the story; he forgave sinners; he allowed women of bad reputation to massage & kiss his feet; he called himself the "Son of God", with absolutely no recognition, permission or authority from the established religious order hierarchy, so much so, that it caused him to be executed as a common criminal or even worse.
He was accused of: making himself equal to God; of being a samaritan (unbeliever) & having an unclean spirit; of being demon possessed; of making himself greater then Abraham; of not being of God & being a sinner; of eating & drinking with publicans & sinners; of receiving publicans & sinners & being their friend; of promoting sedition by refusing to pay taxes & encouraging others to do the same; of being crazy or "beside himself"; of being a madman; of being a deceiver & a blasphemer; of being Beelzebub and casting out devils through the prince of devils; of being a wine drinker & a glutton; of threatening to destroy the temple & stirring up the people; of being a false prophet and a libertine; of perverting the nation. Thats what they accused him of.
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And WHY did he decide to play this role? Why did he take upon himself such a legacy?
To show us the way of love, the way of mercy. Out with religion! Up with Jesus! Out with dogmas! & Up with the only real important dogma of LOVE! Thats the only dogma that Jesus Christ upheld.
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And if you don't believe me, read it for yourself in: Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. *
Thanks.
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I completely agree. Love and love brother, all we need. Unfortunately, it is the product of my contemplation, that "your average" human, honestly, is not intelligent enough to grasp this concept or put it into action. Those who do act in the miniority as they have throughout history.

 

I think humility is important too. Don't put yourself above anyone. Jesus said, "those who love the least of these love me."

 

i find this type of threads funny as hell I honestly don't believe even with out any religion christian , buddhism , islam we humans would** know love except the love for lust.

 

Jesus came to die ont he cross to redeem us to the Father. I think it is funny when people use the gospels to push their idea of Jesus being solely a hippy, but ignore everything else he said and did.
They killed him because he said he was God and a King.

Also: From Matt. 12:25; Mark 3:25; Luke 11:17 Jesus says a house divided cannot stand. If he did not come to found one Church but many "faith communities" or a loose organization of "lovers" with varying beliefs...hjow can it stand?

Also: Matt. 16:18 Jesus builds his "Church" on Peter. Obviously this is the founding of Christianity (or at least the founding of the Holy Catholic/Universal/Apostolic Church).

Yeah, so. If we didn't have Laws, we'd be a bunch of people who make up our own faith rather than follow the guidelines of Jesus Christ.

The Bible isn't the pinicle of Revelation. Jesus Christ, the Incarnation, is.

Loving isn't enough. Jesus says so: John 3:1-8. Jesus says somethign we must do and follow to attain salvation. We must be baptised. That is an prescribed action and requirement...or dogma if you will.

There is one Church that has not changed in 2000 years, you know that right? It has developed, but not changed.

I am all for personal conscience guiding an individual, but if you accept Jesus as presented in the Gospels (as you imply at the end) then why do you ignore most of his teachings and actions.

WRONG. Jesus upheld the Jewish festivals. He even was baptised.

I love the bit on turning the water to "'real' wine". What is the problem with that. All it shows is that drinking is not a sin.

Umm, no. Jesus did this to redeem us to the Father. YOU read the Gospels again. They are clear. If you accept that Jesus was a wise teacher in them, why not that he is what he claimed and that it is Truth...

Jesus didn't preach about a hippie love festival. In many cases he preached about the end of the world, and often.

I have. I study this stuff in a secular University as well as take Catholic and generally Christian Theology.

Thanks.

 

In Luke a prosititute came to Jesus weeping and cleaned his feet with her hair. Then Jesus said because of your great love your many sins are forgiven. Love is the root of all his teaching.

 

Love for God, not in general.

Read on to Luke 7:50...her faith save her, not love for everyone.

 

what can a person born into a world with a church already divided into a thousand pieces do? you can't just pick one like you do a lollipop. yeah, it doesn't stand. that's the point. so how can joining one of the many splinters be the right thing?

 

You are right in saying we are saved by faith in Jesus, but this faith is shown through our love for all including enemies and the least of these. God is love.

I disagree with a universal church, because leads to a concentration of power. The body of Christ should be gathered around and focused on the bible itself.

 

yes to both. we are definitely asked to love our enemies and the least of us. and look what happened when the catholic church's sovereignty was unquestioned...not good. perhaps the scripture about a church divided not being able to stand was simply a reference to conflict.

 

Agree. I think the church should be made of people not buildings and heirarchy. The quote about the a church divided can not stand can also be taken that one should not be double minded.

 

As Jesus said - Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself. He went on to describe loving your neighbor as yourself as showing mercy. So I take it that above all else we should actively love God, and show mercy towards each other...which in and of itself can be a difficult task. :tongue:

 

So then Christianity is necesarily doctrinal. I requires certain actions.

If you disagree with a Universal Church, then you disagree with Jesus' own words.

EDIT: Also, this comes dangerously close to Bible-olatry. Shouldn't the Body of Christ be focused on the Kingdom and God?

Lady of the Freaks, he reference to the house not standing is from when Jesus cast out a demon, and was accused of being from the Devil. He said that if the Devil was casting out demons, it could not stand--using the metaphor of house If Christianity has many different factions (and those factions disagree on major issues) then Christianity cannot stand. The Christian Church must be Universal in belief. If it is not, the it is not christian. I just happen the believe that the Catholic Church is the True Chuch.

 

jesus christ.... jeebus cripes... cheesus crust!
t he he he

 

yes, he said if you're not with me, you're against me. i don't see how that's the same as saying you are required to belong to a particular church organization of the thousands upon thousands out there. it's beyond the ability of the individual to even examine all the possible churches in one lifetime and make an informed choice these days. i doubt he was putting that burden on us from what is written there.

 

A burden from Christ? I would say the burden comes from the plethora of different faith communities out there who have been founded by men and women throughout the past 2000 years. That is not God's fault.

Christ gave us One Church, and it was men who broke away from it. If Christ founded one Church and one Faith, then if there are two different beliefs (for example, what happens to the bread and wine during the consecration by an ordained preist?) then the faith is no longer One, but divided. Those who do not believe in One Church, are against the One Church--the Body of Christ.

EDIT: Please note my edit in my previous post.

 

umm...that's exactly what i said. but you're not explaining how the person who is faced with the plethora of churches TODAY is supposed to deal with that, are you? in the face of a splintered church, why is the person who chooses to rely on a personal relationship with God wrong? besides, as jesus said, when even two of us are gathered in his name, he is with us. is that not 'church' enough?

 

Baptism. Faith.

Jesus said to Simon "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church." He did not say Peter's church. So authority should come directly from Jesus himself. Jesus is the Word.

If you worship the physical bible yes you're right, but reading the bible is not idolatry. The words in the bible are the seeds of the Kingdom of God.
Church-olatry is also a danger.

 

Baptism is a sign of our faith. Faith is putting trust in God. Baptism is an action, that is a sign of our faith (not our faith itself) that is a means of grace (a sacrament).

Peter's Church is the Church of Christ. He gave it to the apostles and thei successors, headed by Peter and his successors.

True. So is Cleric-olatry. Good thing I don't do any of these.

Point is that you said the Body of Christ should focus on the Bible. It is jut troublesome wording.

 

There are Four Marks of the True Church: Oneness; Holiness; Universality; and Apostolicity. I will focus on he Apostles.

Apostolic succession is needed for there to be a Church. Jesus can be present within a community of believers. A Bible Study group is not Church, it is a community. The Apostles appointed successors, who appointed successors, who appointed successors et cetera.

A Church that has apostolic succession (Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and a few others claim as such) really limits the number of choices out there.