Jeremiah and a so-called "new" covenant

Discussion in 'Judaism' started by Sephardic-male, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. Sephardic-male

    Sephardic-male Member

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    JEREMIAH WROTE A NEW COVENANT?

    Hugh Fogelman



    Christian doctrine claims to derive from the collection of writings known as the "New Testament." Christian theologians assert that this "New Testament" (NT) is the NEW COVENANT to be made by God with ISRAEL and JUDAH, and use Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV) as their proof-text. In so doing, they claim Christianity now replaces the “Old Covenant.”



    What was the REAL prophecy that Jeremiah talked about? Did God replace Judaism and His covenant with a “new” religion. No! Did God say he would make a new covenant? Yes, but not in the context Christians claim. IN summary: NO, not a new religion and yes, a new “promise.”



    Are the "Covenant" and the "Testament" one and the same? Keep in mind, Jeremiah wrote in Hebrew. So when Greeks--not fully understanding the correct Hebrew definition of the word “Bereeth--interpreted the Hebrew word “Bereeth”, they interpreted it as Covenant and also Testament,” They failed to realize that “Bereeth” also means a “promise.”



    The Hebrew word "BEREETH" or covenant signifies a promise between God and the Jewish people. It may be made official by any number of symbolic acts such as circumcision (bris), offerings (sacrifice), etc. Bereeth binds living persons to certain behaviour. In the case of the NEW Contract (Covenant), the parties involved were God, Israel, and Judah. The New Covenant is to be made with both Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31).



    Bereeth is a promise from God that he will never abandon the Jews as is revealed over and over again in His Torah and Tanakh. However, Christians claim Jeremiah clearly says that God replaced the old covenant with a new one. “Behold the days are coming says the Lord when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the House of Judah”.(Jer 31:30-31 quoted in Heb 8:8-12, 10:16). Christians claim this clearly prove that the old covenant will be abolished for the new one of Jesus.Clearly? Hardly! Perhaps, IF you stop right there with verse 32. But continue: The very next verse 33 says,



    "I will put my Torah within them."



    It does not say new Torah – instead, it is the same Torah which will become a permanent part and will not be forgotten as in the past. Verse 32 in the Jewish Bible says;



    But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My Torah in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”



    Christians should ask, do they follow the Torah?

    V
    erse 33/34 explains;



    "No longer will they need to teach one another . . .for all of them, from the least to them to the greatest, shall heed Me, declares the Lord".



    Christians must ask; “What did Jeremiah mean by verse 34? We no longer need to teach each other and will pay attention to the Lord?” Simply put, Jeremiah was prophesying to the messianic age when the whole world will know of the One God and there would be no need to teach about God because we will all know Him.



    If Jeremiah was correct in his prophecy, then there would be no need for Christians to go out into the world to tell people about any Jesus. This is proof that Jesus did not fulfill this prophecy as told in Jeremiah 33/34, because God told His prophets that during the Messianic era, the whole world will know about the one God.



    Christians should understand verse 34 and ask themselves: if Jesus was the messiah why did the early church write the ending of the books of Mark and Matthew, telling them to preach to the world about Jesus? There would be no need to, for as Jeremiah and other prophets have said, when the Messiah comes, the whole world will automatically know.



    Verse 33/34 reads; “and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the Lord'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more. When messiah comes; And everyone will know the Messiah. Everyone will know God!

    Verse 34-35 -Thus saith the Lord, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, the Lord of hosts is His name: If these ordinances (the Laws, the Torah) depart from before Me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.”




    Orthodox Jews follow Torah to this day.

    Israel will always be God's people! Where does it say God changed His mind and made a “New covenant" with the Gentile nations, replacing Israel? It does not!



    Perhaps Jeremiah made a mistake. If verse 34 is a mistake, then why should anyone believe any verses in Chapter 31 to be correct?



    Do Christians pick and choose which verses are true and which are not true?





    Copyright © 2003, Hugh Fogelman. All rights reserved




    http://jdstone.org/cr/files/jeremiahwroteanewcovenant_1.html
     
  2. ryupower

    ryupower NO capcom included

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    So my dear Jewish friend, what do you make of scriptures such as ISA 60:3, ISA 42:6 and ISA 7:14, ISA 9:6-7 and last but not least ISA 53 all psalms110:1 I could give you at least 20 more if you would like. I thank God for the Jews. As far as I am concerned, Father God is the most amazing outrageous 'Jew' in the Universe. He owns it all created it all and wants every man women and child to call on the name of Yesuah and be saved. Levit 17:11 says with out the shedding of inoccent blood there is no forgivness for sin. Messish had to come before 70A.D. when the temple was destroyed.Please explain how you are getting your sins remitted according to this scripture no blood, no forgivness! Shalom!!!
     
  3. the dauer

    the dauer Member

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    First, where do any of the verses you've mentioned indicate they are about the messiah? Have you read the entire book of Isaiah together? Who does Isaiah say the servant is?

    Second:

    If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. [2 Chronicles 7:14]

    But if from there you seek the Eternal your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul. [Deuteronomy 4:29]

    Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it. [Psalm 34:14]

    The Eternal is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. [Psalm 34:18]

    You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise. [Psalm 51:16-17]


    Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. [Psalm 40:6]

    Take words with you and return to the Eternal. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the bulls of our lips. [Hosea 14:2]

    He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. [Proverbs 28:13]


    Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for; through the fear of the Eternal a man avoids evil. [Proverbs 16:6]

    To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the Eternal than sacrifice. [Proverbs 21:3]

    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. [Hosea 6:6]


    The Eternal is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. [Psalm 34:18]


    He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy; he is restored by God to his righteous state. [Job 33:26]


    With what shall I come before the Eternal and bow down before the exalted God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Will the Eternal be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Eternal require of you? Only to do Justice, and to love Mercy and to walk humbly with your God. [Micah 6:6-8]

    And if you want to read more(not just quotes but explanation about another aspect of this):

    http://www.messiahtruth.com/atone.html

    dauer
     
  4. Sephardic-male

    Sephardic-male Member

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