Jailed for Not Saying Pledge of Allegiance

The fact remains, he went to jail because he didnt do what the judge told him to do.... and no matter what the judge says you have to do it or GO TO JAIL.

Its funny, cause hes not patriotic enough to say the stupid pledge but he probably IS patriotic enough to have ACLU help fund his litigation over the whole thing!

I dont see it as a big deal, really. In fact, I wonder why you are so uptight about authority, this isnt the first time I have seen you get uptight about that.

I for one love that a judge made life for a lawyer a little more annoying. Classic, and perhaps one of the better uses for five hours of incarceration that I have seen - if only every judge would only jail a couple lawyers so we could move on to politicians.....

Its just the stupid pledge, if guy cant get over mumbling thru it like schoolkids are expected to, than he deserves a few hours in the tank. No, hes not required to say it, but he IS required to do what a judge says or be willing to spend time in jail.



the bottom line is that if you think Authority/The Man is out to get you, there are a billion places to look that will reinforce that opinion - but it doesnt make it true.

 

Omitting to do something is not doing something. I existed, and I had male genitals and a California address. Congress and a draft board and some sheriffs and U.S. marshalls did the rest. Maybe I should have done something, like torch the draft board and its files, but I didn't. It is more accurate to say the law tried to break me, than to say I broke the law. By the way, I was acquitted on technicalities and my time served was limited to pre-trial confinement, about three weeks.

Four thousand U.S. war resisters were convicted of refusing induction (United States Code Title 50 Appendix 462) and served prison time as a result of the Vietnam conflict. At least 20,000 of us emigrated rather than accept military enslavement.

 

OH, I guess it is just my nature.

Plus I fell in with the wrong crowd in the '70s. A bunch of long-haired freeks who used to break laws and live by some philosophy of "CHALLENGE AUTHORITY."

 

You must have missed a decade or so, kids are no longer required to say the pledge in school. When I was a kid I resented being forced to say the pledge and to pray. It was wrong then and it is still wrong.

You are free to believe what you want, and I have the right to be free from it.

.

 

LOL ... ok. The fact is, you broke the law and you paid the penalty. I don't see any reason to be as bitter about it as you seem to be. You made the choice to leave the US and move to Canada, which is fine. That was your choice.

But nonetheless, all that is materially different from refusing to acquiesce to some arbitrary procedural rule established by an individual.

 

Actually Granny, his original point was that BEFORE he broke the unjust law which said the State has the right to force young MEN into a useless war, he was targeted because:

1. He was male over the age of 18
2. He lived in the U.S.

He took one of the few options open to young men of that time. Instead of joining the military, or openly refusing to join and being sent to a cold, heartless federal prison, he chose to seek asylum in Canada.

Now if they try to reinstate conscription I will be out there (And I hope NOW will as well) insisting that it include young women. We don't fight with broadswords and maces any more. Women can operate the lighter equipment we now use and should be put in harms way just as young men are.

OH, don't want to see some pretty young girl scooped into a body bag - well I don't want to see some pretty young boy there either. Maybe ppl will re-think going to useless wars.

 

Oh, that goes without saying. As long as anyone is subjected to a draft, then everyone should be subjected to a draft.

Excepting, of course, me and you ... LOL. As much as I'm sure they need tons of little old ladies in the army, I would refuse to do it. Hell, I may have to join DirtyDog up in Canada.

 

This thread is getting interesting. One of the reasons Bin Laden hated the U.S. back in the nineties was that they allowed women to become soldiers, and sent some to his country, Saudi Arabia. The U.S. repealed USC Title 50 App 462 (the draft) in 1973, and no women have ever been drafted by the U.S., although I believe Israel does so.

Fundamentally, the U.S. is a bloated superpower which has engaged in acts such as firebombing entire cities as early as 1943, and has invaded numerous countries in the name of freedom (for capitalists) since 1898. Its electoral process means that any multimillionaire is free to run for office so that he/she can sit in Congress and take orders from big business. I have the same respect for the U.S. government that I have for the Cosa Nostra. See Midgardsun's (rather unformatted) post in the thread 'Executions in America', entry 52. link is http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=408881&page=6

So Granny, I have no regrets. By the way, ever been jailed in the U.S.?

 

Yep. My experience probably wasn't as harrowing as yours, however.

 

Admirers of the United States legal system might like to look at the case of attorney Richard Fine, who was disbarred and then held without being charged for eighteen months in Los Angeles County Men's Central Jail, for accusing judges of corruption. Mr. Fine spent 563 days in solitary confinement for contempt of court, by order of Superior Court Judge David Yaffe.

MCJ has been repeatedly denounced by the ACLU as being violent, overcrowded, and plagued by violence on the part of Sheriff's deputies.

See the link http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/09/attorney-richard-i-fine-released.html or do your own internet search on Richard Fine's case.

​

 

I didnt miss it, I just silently avoided it - which is the American way and why I said that lawyer dude should have just mumbled thru it like everyone else who was ever expected to. And I did say EXPECTED and not REQUIRED. You may have been forced, but those of us who followed were merely expected.

Yes its stupid, yes, its wrong, but get over it! There are SO many better causes to fight for, choose your battles wisely!


As for the draft, which is an entirely different topic, there are plenty of countries in which military service is mandatory for all citizens. I think its a damn fine way to make sure you have earned your country taking care of you, instead of thinking its deserved without giving back (or even bashing the place). You can be an anti establishment hippie and still be patriotic ya know



Since this thread has totally deteriorated from the original topic I wont be back, since I was here to discuss a judges power and NOT all these other off topic subjects. Enjoy.

 

Sorry I got off topic. I overestimate my own importance. How about the Richard Fine/David Yaffe case, which is both on topic and current? (See my post #50, this thread.)

 

nevermind, my bad.

 

This adds nothing to the topic and it veers the discussion in the direction od personal attacks.

 

True.

I sorry

Is this better;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM&feature=related"]YouTube - Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance
actually I tend to agree with this a lot as to the meaning behind the words.

 

I'll concede that it is more entertaining...

 

When I was in the 5th grade and a teacher told me there was something wrong with me because I didn't believe in Jesus, should I have just "mumbled thru it." And should I just "mumbled thru all of the insults from Christians over the decades of my life?

Sorry, but mandatory prayer and pledges do nothing but divide this nation and set the stage for discrimination, bigotry and cruelty.

Don't see it, all of these issues are connected to civil and equal rights. Are you against giving everyone a fair chance at a happy life, or should everyone be required to mumble thru it and pretend to be what they are not?

.

 

Yeah, ain't that the truth.

 

Actually, I just recently went thru an episode of being called for jury duty and the en-masse oath that is delivered to a room of about 200 ppl and which ends in the archaic "so help me god."

I did not say it - and not to be dishonest (Which some think is the American Way and that can't be argued) as a lifelong dissident I made a point of getting the bailiff to arrange a meeting with the judge, whereupon I informed him I did not recite the oath as presented. He just asked me to affirm that I would tell the truth, to which I said "Yes, I am an honest man."

Now when those of us selected for this one judge(Schlessinger) they gave us a new oath without the god ref. I asked the court clerk later in the lobby if that was something new and he said he wished he could give the standard oath but the judge wouldn't let him.

Our judge apparently is an educated man aware of the cultural differences one encounters in a metropolis like Miami. Not like the backwater rubes that wear robes in Tupelo Mississippi.

 

How many of the 2.3 million Americans now in lock-up would care to recite the pledge?