It was 40 years ago today Nixon told the guns to spray

It was not the military that fired the first shot. Although, many people think that, it was someone in the crowd that wanted a riot, that fired the first shot. Unfortunately, innocent people died. While students died at Kent State, that same day American sevicemen were dying to protect the right of those students to protest.
That is what this country is about. I may not agree with what you are saying, but I will protect your right to say it down to the last drop of my blood.
Freedom is not free. Check out the military sections of your local cemeteries for the cost of freedom.

 

Never heard someone from the crowd fired first and don't believe it. Source please?

 

The domino theory postulated that if one country in Indochina fell the rest would soon follow and that as the communists took over each country, the instability of the region would soon impact the rest of the world.
The reality of the situation is this, the US Government under FDR place American troops in Hanoi during WW2 to help the Vietnamese people combat the onslaught of the Japanese forces as they marched down the mainland of China and took over the countries in Asia.
Americans remained in that country until the 70's. We were there mainly because at Geneva, Switzerland in 1954 we as a country was made a protector of Indochina which included Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.
No war is completely justifiable, however, some wars are unavoidable.
Being in the military is one occupation that many hope they never have to use their training for. No one that I ever met wanted war, however when drawn into war you fight to win. And all of us who have served in the military have served so that while we are risking our lives protecting freedom around the world there can be people here open opposing us. as we die to protect you and that right.
By protecting the rights of others we protect our rights.

 

If you will look at my age you will see that I am 65. 40 years ago I was on active duty.

Part of our training at that time was for the possibility of being deployed to an environment in our own country where we would be received with hostility and anger we trained daily by having insults, rocks, stones, garbage and almost anything hurled at us, to make sure that we did not react to any of those things to cause us to fire first. Therefore, since the military fired, one must conclude that based on training and how we were trained, the first shot had to have been fired from somewhere in the crowd or the vicinity and that the military was then defending themselves.

What you are still failing to realize is that at the moment that 4 Kent State students died, more that 4 US servicemen died in battle protecting their right to protest.

Were the deaths justified? No Were the deaths of the servicemen justified? No.

Casualties are the result of war. Sometimes, even non combatants lose their lives. All lives lost that day were in defense of freedom.

The cost of Freedom means that someone must die, to insure that it continues.

Does it make it easier to accept? No

I regret that anyone has to die so that we may be free, but unfortunately that is the only way to pay for freedom.

 

With all due respect--not good enough.

 

I'm with you on this.

 

The military did fire the first and all the other shots, too. It was a shameful day for the National Guard.

 

If the students had been armed better there would have been more than 4 servicemen dead at Kent State. There were none killed there. A closed mind will never accept the truth even when face to face with it. The truth is, if there at been no student protest, there would have not been a military response, then there would have been no needless deaths, you can accept that or you can reject that. The protesters of that day could have cared less if servicemen died, they just wanted to embarrass the government.
I still say that, is what freedom is about. The truth may never really be know about what really happened that day, but both sides to some degree are at fault.

 

I really object to your post! You make it sound like the students were armed and killed servicemen! I don't think you really meant to say that, but the truth is very different. From Wikipedia:

Since when is it an American activity to fire live rounds on protesters? This is America!! The government shamed itself!

 

That's what I remember reading. Guilt or political beliefs make some people believe what they want,truth be damned.

 

And cops kill how many unarmed people each year without probable cause?, this whole instance, though tragic has been milked to death by people who justify themselves in reopening the same wounds to unsuccefully make a comparison with current events.

 

This is sounds oxymoronic.

For one thing those students DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST, because they were fired upon by armed U.S. military on a college campus of all places.

And our men dying in Nam were not there protecting anything in America. We were the aggressors in a foreign land far removed from America trying to support a foolish concept that our economic system was not strong enuf to stand up to communism without armed intervention. We were supporting one corrupt regime after another in the South, while Ho Chi Minh had the support of the people in the North to throw out the European colonialists.

 

This is abject nonsense. There has never been an ounce of verifiable proof that anyone other than the Guard fired anything.

At the same time, it has never been determined exactly why a small group out of the hundreds of Guardsmen decided to open fire. According to witnesses, three or four of them suddenly began firing simultaneously. Later, several others commenced firing as well, perhaps believing that an order had been given to fire. No such order was ever given.

It's possible that the three or four mistakenly believed that they were being fired upon. It would seem to be a simple thing to ask them about it, but if they were, to my knowledge there's no official accounting of it.

And while we're at it, the title of this thread is needlessly inflammatory, not to mention wrong. Nixon didn't give any orders to fire at Kent State.

If we're going to commemorate that sad and fateful day, at least be truthful about it.

 

Right on!

The theory that a sniper in the crowd fired first was raised right from the beginning of the investigation. The investigators would have been highly motivated to find evidence to support this theory, since it would have provided the only possible justification for the Guard's actions. Yet they couldn't find one shred of evidence to support it. It didn't happen that way. The Guard were the only people who fired shots, and they did so without having due cause.

They deprived those four students of their lives, and all the students on that campus of their right to free speech and protest.

 

And it proved to be wrong, didn't it?

This is muddled logic, to say the least. You're implying that because American soldiers died "to protect the right to protest", we shouldn't protest.

 

I find it interesting that there can be so much anger still left about Vietnam. We never went to Vietnam as aggressors. We went as protectors. I am sure that the over 58,000 names on the Vietnam Wall would have loved to have died after a full life and not in war, but that was not meant to be.
Maybe the next time we are attacked everyone in the military should refuse to defend us, so there will be no reason to complain. No wait, everybody would complain because no want wanted to fight. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
There are some people who will constantly complain, not giving a damn about anyone else or the rights of anybody. They just say I object, Hell no I won't go, or we don't have a right to defend ourselves. All I have to say is, if you are one of the complainers, if we are ever invaded and your house is in peril, defend yourself, because I won't come to your rescue.

 

Oh Shit. Did I miss something?

Please tell me when the Vietnamese attacked America.

 

Seconded, and wasn't the protest against the war in Cambodia...?