Islamic Hell

Discussion in 'Islam' started by Dirk_Pitt, Jun 12, 2006.

  1. Dirk_Pitt

    Dirk_Pitt Banned

    Its me again back with another question :&



    I was watching a show on the History Channel last night about the concept of Satan and Hell. Most of the show was about the Christain interpitation of hell but it also spoke on different religions and thier version of hell. They had an interview with a Muslim and spoke briefly about the Islamic concept of hell. He said that muslims do believe in hell but that hell is a temporary punishment for all except the very worst sinners. The duration one spends in hell is dependent on the eveiness of thier sins. In other words, if you are just a little bad then you spend a short time in hell, if you bad you spend a little longer and if your REALLY bad you spend eternity there. He basically said all but the very worst men would eventually get to paradise.

    Is this the general concept of hell as accepted by all Muslims?
    If so does this mean people of other faiths or no faith at all can get to paradise as long as they have lived a just, compassionate, and moral life?
     
  2. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Hi brotherDirk_Pitt :)
    You are more than welcome, thank you very much for your questions about Allah's religion^^
    Hell is for those who rejected Allah's message, didn't believe in Allah, didn't accept Islam, the punishment for Muslims who committed sins and evil deeds, disobeyed His teachings …According to your deeds you'll be judged, after the temporary punishment they will enter paradise forever.BTW Hell and Paradise, each of them has degrees and levels , for example, Allah says:Verily the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths [grade] of the Fire" - Paradise "For all there will be degrees [or ranks] according to what they did"
    Allah says:
    *And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad pbuh) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them?*And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust.*"..And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)'' * Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.* Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) came unto you, but you disregarded them (i.e. you left them, did not think deeply in them, and you turned away from them), and so this Day, you will be neglected (in the Hell-fire)."​

    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  3. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    "The Holy Qur'an has repeatedly affirmed that the life after death is not a new phenomenon and all its manifestations are reflections of this life. It has also stated that in the Hereafter all the spiritual conditions of this world will be manifested physically, both in the intermediate state and in the resurrection. Further it has emphasized that there will be unlimited progress in the hereafter. In short, according to the Holy Qur'an, hell and heaven are both reflections of a man's life, and are not something new that comes from outside,... and will be but reflections of the spiritual conditions of man in this life." (The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam)

    meaning, you end up making your own hell. it's specified for the individual.

    "The fire of the wrath of God burned on account of sins which rise above the hearts." The origin of the fire of hell is, therefore, in the sins which a man commits in this life, that he prepares a hell in which he will find himself in the next.

    Hell is also temporary for anyone that gets condemned to it:


    [3:198] It is a small and temporary advantage, then Hell shall be their abode. What an evil place of rest!

    6: v. 129, the Quran says: "God said, Verily the fire is your resort to dwell therein unless thy Lord will it otherwise, verily, thy Lord is wise and knowing." On another occasion, those in hell are spoken of as "staying therein for years" (ch. 78: v. 23). The original word is "Ahqab" which is the plural of "huqub", meaning a year or years, or seventy or eighty years, or a long time (see Lanes Arabic Lexicon).

    God forgives, so therefore, hell is for reformation.

    Verily you shall all be surely transformed from state to state" (ch. 84: v. 19).

    Meaning, that both Heaven and Hell have several stages. You advance depending on the level of piety you achieve in this world and the next.


    "The statement that the evil-doers will abide in hell only for a limited number of years shows clearly that, according to the Holy Quran, the torments of hell are not everlasting, for infinite time cannot be measured by a finite number of years. Again in ch. 101: v. 6, hell is called a "mother" of those who shall go into it. The use of this word is, I think, the clearest evidence as to the true nature of hell as described in the Holy Quran. What is meant is that, as a child is brought up by the mother, so those in hell will be brought up in that place for a new life, the life of perpetual advancement in paradise."
    http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000017.html


    further evidence that it's not everlasting from hadith:

    "Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" (vol. vii, page 245); "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" (vol. vii, page 245).


    "Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" (vol. vii, page 245); "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" (vol. vii, page 245).


    I got most of this info from this book here:

    http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000017.html


    I highly suggest you take a look at it.

    thanks for asking. :)
     
  4. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    no one goes to hell for eternity.

    and this isnt really in reference to non-believers, per se. it's to ppl that know islam is the true religion, but reject it anyways. those ppl are condemned to hell for their arrogance.

    once again, it's a reformation, not everlasting punishment.

    yes. those that reject it even when they've seen the signs of it's truth are destined to hell.

    for those other ppl that follow their religion b/c they dont know better, they will be judged solely by their deeds in this world.

    that's the quickest explanation i could come up w/.

    HTH
     
  5. cabdirazzaq

    cabdirazzaq Member

    Asalamu aleykum brothers!
    Ozy, theres a strong consensus among the scholars of islam that hell is permanent for those who died as kafirs (that means those who had been warned) and I can tell you that its virtually impossible to pass a few pages of the Quran without finding this fact repeated over and over again. To deny this, one has to be naive. Among the numerous verses speaking about this subject we have the following:

    “Thus Allaah will show them their deeds as regrets for them. And they will never get out of the Fire” [al-Baqarah 2:167]

    “They will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom; and theirs will be a lasting torment” [al-Maa’idah 5:37]
     
  6. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    im not naive. im just very clear about what i say here and very certain about the translations i use.



    here's what you have:


    here's what i have:
    the arabic word used for "lasting" doesnt mean never-ending. if you want to see it used in other places, see verses 11:108 & 11:199


    here's what you wrote:
    the phrase "never get out of the fire" doesnt exactly mean theyre doomed into hell forever. it means that these ppl will be in hell, wont be able to tolerate it and would want to get out, but wont be able to until theyre reformed.

    you cant just pick that one verse out like that. i think it's pretty clear from the sayings of the prophet that i quoted above and the quran quotes, that there will be a time when hell is empty.

    Hell is not everlasting in islam. that's a major difference w/ christianity and islam.

    we truly believe that God is fear mingled with love, like a parent, who will eventually forgive those that transgress.

    salaam
     
  7. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Dirk_Pitt
    I think some events will take place before that, e.g
    *Qur'aan [Muhammad Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan translation]:And you will see each nation humbled to their knees (kneeling), each nation will be called to its Record (of deeds). This Day you shall be recompensed for what you used to do. This Our Record speaks about you with truth. Verily, We were recording what you used to do * Then, as for him who will be given his Record in his right hand, He surely will receive an easy reckoning, .. But whosoever is given his Record behind his back, He will invoke (his) destruction, And shall enter a blazing Fire, and made to taste its burning. Verily, he was among his people in joy! Verily, he thought that he would never come back (to Us)! Yes! Verily, his Lord has been ever beholding him! *... those who disbelieved (it will be said to them): "Were not Our Verses recited to you? But you were proud, and you were a people who were Mujrimoon (polytheists, disbelievers, sinners, criminals)." And when it was said: "Verily! Allahs Promise is the truth, and there is no doubt about the coming of the Hour," you said; "We know not what is the Hour, we do not think it but as a conjecture, and we have no firm convincing belief (therein)." And the evil of what they did will appear to them, and they will be completely encircled by that which they used to mock at! And it will be said: "This Day We will forget you as you forgot the Meeting of this Day of yours. And your abode is the Fire, and there is none to help you." This, because you took the revelations of Allah (this Quran) in mockery, and the life of the world deceived you. So this Day, they shall not be taken out from there (Hell), nor shall they be Yustataboon (i.e. they shall not return to the worldly life, so that they repent to Allah, and beg His Pardon for their sins).
    As I said they heard about Islam , Allah's message and knew about its truth , yet they rejected it,
    *"..And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)'' * Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) came unto you, but you disregarded them (i.e. you left them, did not think deeply in them, and you turned away from them), and so this Day, you will be neglected (in the Hell-fire)."*... those who disbelieved (it will be said to them): "Were not Our Verses recited to you?But you were proud, and you were a people who were Mujrimoon (polytheists, disbelievers, sinners, criminals)."
    regrding those who don't hear about it, I don't know all what I know is *"..And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)'' what is their fate paradise, or nothing, or will be judged according to their deeds, I don't know
    Qur'aan:And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not, etc.) that of which you have no knowledge .
    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  8. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy
    [​IMG]


    Temporary for ANYONE, Astaghfirullah wa atoobu ilaih, I've never ever heard such a thing
    Read the previous verse:[3:187]Let not the free disposal (and affluence) of the disbelieversthroughout the land (of this temporary world and life) deceive you. [3:198]It is a small and temporary advantage (this life this world), then Hell shall be their abode. What an evil place of rest![003:198] But, for those who fear their Lord, are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise); therein are they to dwell (for ever), an entertainment from Allah; and that which is with Allah is the Best for AlAbrar (those who are obedient to Allah and follow strictly His Orders).
    æóíóæúãó íöÍúÔõÑõåõãú ÌóãöíÚðÇ íóÇ ãóÚúÔóÑó ÇáúÌöäøö ÞóÏö ÇÓúÊóßúËóÑúÊõã ãøöäó ÇáÅöäÓö æóÞóÇáó ÃóæúáöíóÂÄõåõã ãøöäó ÇáÅöäÓö ÑóÈøóäóÇ ÇÓúÊóãúÊóÚó ÈóÚúÖõäóÇ ÈöÈóÚúÖò æóÈóáóÛúäóÇ ÃóÌóáóäóÇ ÇáøóÐöíó ÃóÌøóáúÊó áóäóÇ ÞóÇáó ÇáäøóÇÑõ ãóËúæóÇßõãú ÎóÇáöÏöíäó ÝöíåóÇ ÅöáÇøó ãóÇ ÔóÇÁ Çááøåõ Åöäøó ÑóÈøóßó Íóßöíãñ Úóáíãñ
    BTW: you didn't quote the entire verse, look to whom Allah is talking to 3.198"O you assembly of jinns! Many did you mislead of men," and their Auliya (friends and helpers, etc.) amongst men will say: "Our Lord! We benefited one from the other, but now we have reached our appointed term which You did appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire is your resort to dwell therein etc (he is talking to those who were Auliya of jinns?) and regarding unless thy Lord will it
    Read scholars' interpretation, there are some opinions but no one I have seen explained it as you understand it!!!!!
    O MY GOD, ASTAGHFIRULLAH, INA LILAH WA INA ELAYHE RAJI'OON I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS
    Once again PLEASE READ THE previous verse
    Çä Ìåäã ßÇäÊ ãÑÕÇÏÇ þááØÇÛíä ãÇÈÇþ áÇÈËíä ÝíåÇ ÇÍÞÇÈÇ
    A dwelling place for the Taghoon (those who transgress the boundry limits set by Allah sinners, etc.)
    Subhanallah, Alhamdulilah, you've said it, you said: The statement that the evil-doers? Couldn't Muslims be evil-doers yes they could be so? But not the disbelievers, no.
    NOW this link explains everything, DO You belong to Ahmadiyya Muslim community?!!!!!!!!!!! I think It is better then to stop reading and responding to your posts? Except if you want me to go on.

    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  9. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    cabdirazzaq
    Wa alekum Asalam wa rahmatu Allahi Wa Barakatu brother
    Regardless of their consensus, Qur'aan is made it very CLEAR and OBVIOUS + plus the Ahadeeths.
    please don't say naive dear brother, sometimes it could be misunderstandings or he missed that and the like, OK dear =)
    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  10. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy
    If so, how do you explain those verses, which brother cabdirazzaq quoted?

    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  11. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Allah described some of the punishments, it is horror, we aren't angels, we believed in his message so at last we deseve paradise :D why should we put the criminals in jail if they will be released after whatsoever years? Allah does whatever he wants, we are his creatures, this is his creation, he is the owner, the is the Sir, It is totally completely up to his higness.
    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  12. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    Cat, i already explained those verses and what the reference was.

    How do you explain the hadeeth that says that there will be a time when hell is empty?

    No offense, but I really have hard time understanding your posts sometimes. It just seems to go all over the place.

    what is this-

    ???

    and then you say this:

    3:187]Let not the free disposal (and affluence) of the disbelieversthroughout the land (of this temporary world and life) deceive you. [3:198]It is a small and temporary advantage (this life this world), then Hell shall be their abode. What an evil place of rest![003:198] But, for those who fear their Lord, are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise); therein are they to dwell (for ever), an entertainment from Allah; and that which is with Allah is the Best for AlAbrar (those who are obedient to Allah and follow strictly His Orders).

    How do you say that this says Hell is permament?!?

    It doesnt say that here.
    yes, well your dogma makes you blind to a lot of things.i tend to take a rational approach to these issues, and see that these words are used to mean "temporary" elsewhere.

    yes, of course it could. i never said otherwise???


    I have no idea what you're getting at here.

    let me repeat what Muhammad SAW said:

    "Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" (vol. vii, page 245); "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" (vol. vii, page 245).


    "Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" (vol. vii, page 245); "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" (vol. vii, page 245).


    Do you deny this?

    Once again, Cat, you deny things simply b/c some scholar interpreted these things for you.

    Start thinking for yourself. and look at what makes logical sense.

    Does it make sense for God to have a permament punishment for anyone when he says that he is the most forgiving the just? how is it just to simply punish a person?

    God says over and over that the afterlife is in stages. And that we will be further reformed in the afterlife.
    Oh please. Get a grip. Im muslim. I take very care which sources i use & how they translate things. From whatever site or book that might be.

    If what i say frightens or scares you to think to the point where you dont want to engage me, so be it.

    but peace & love regardless.

    salaam.

    please start rebutting what i say w/out theatrics. thank you.


     
  13. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy

    Dear what He said:
    íÑíÏæä Çä íÎÑÌæÇ ãä ÇáäÇÑ æãÇåã ÈÎÇÑÌíä ãäåÇ æáåã ÚÐÇÈ ãÞíã
    [5.38] They would wish to come out of the Fire, but they will NOT be able to come out of it and they shall have a lasting punishment
    Regarding verse 11:108, what's your point?
    11:199 the chapter ends with verse #123?

    No dear, if so it will contradict with so many Quraanic verses and hadeeths, what!, do you wanna me to quote all Qurannic verses which talk about this? (I don't mind if you want so) Take this for example,
    Çä ÇáÐíä ßÝÑæÇ æãÇÊæÇ æåã ßÝÇÑ ÇæáÆß Úáíåã áÚäÉ Çááå æÇáãáÇÆßÉ æÇáäÇÓ ÇÌãÚíä ÎÇáÏíä ÝíåÇ áÇíÎÝÝ Úäåã ÇáÚÐÇÈ æáÇåã íäÙÑæä
    [002:161] Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allah … [002:162] they shall remain under the curse in Hell for ever, their punishment shall not be alleviated, neither shall they be regarded.

    First of all, according to the hadeeth which is attributed to the prophet he said that any hadeeth contradicts with qur'aan then it is a fake one, secondly, is this a saheeh hadeeth, where can I find it in Arabic, did they quote it fully? Thirdly, he said: "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" The second hadeeth explained it,"Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" not for ever


    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  14. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy
    Concerning Post #15 I'll read it tomorrow Insha'allah , Gotta Go, see ya =)
    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens

     
  15. Ozy

    Ozy Member


    please see my post #8 about this.

    see verse 11:107 (11:108 for me, since i count assalum-o-alaikum as a separate verse)-
    "
    Abiding therein, so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord may will. Surely, thy Lord does what He pleases"

    the same word for "Abiding" is used to mean a long time. not eternal.

    please see commentray from ibn taimiya & ibn al-qayyim (Fath) regarding this issue.

    and you might not like who they are, but i found a very detailed commentary about this here:

    http://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=1121&region=E1

    please try to argue w/ what they say and dont fall victim to simply attacking the messenger. they give lots of references and explanations for the wrods used. :)




    yes, please do so.
    Show me where it says forever! It says:

    "Those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, on them shall be the curse of Allah and of the angels and of men all together.
    They shall remain under it. The punishment shall not be lightened for them, nor shall they be granted respite."

    Meaning, once they have gone to far, and have been judged to be punished, they will serve their sentence in hell. just like prison. in this situation, Allah is saying that there will not be any "parole". but that does not mean and never means that this is eternal punishment!




    yes, exactly! it doesnt contradict the quran. hell "flourishes" for awhile and then it gets empty.

    im not sure what we're debating here. I dont believe this, you havent given me anything that says that Hell is eternal in the koran. i already showed that that word has been shown to mean a long time, but not eternal.



    salaam.

    :)
     
  16. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    okay sounds good.

    gotta run as well.

    salaam.
     
  17. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy

    Dear what He said:
    íÑíÏæä Çä íÎÑÌæÇ ãä ÇáäÇÑ æãÇåã ÈÎÇÑÌíä ãäåÇ æáåã ÚÐÇÈ ãÞíã
    [5.38] They would wish to come out of the Fire, but they will NOT be able to come out of it and they shall have a lasting punishment
    Regarding verse 11:108, what's your point?
    11:199 the chapter ends with verse #123?

    No dear, if so it will contradict with so many Quraanic verses and hadeeths, what!, do you wanna me to quote all Qurannic verses which talk about this? (I don't mind if you want so) Take this for example,
    Çä ÇáÐíä ßÝÑæÇ æãÇÊæÇ æåã ßÝÇÑ ÇæáÆß Úáíåã áÚäÉ Çááå æÇáãáÇÆßÉ æÇáäÇÓ ÇÌãÚíä ÎÇáÏíä ÝíåÇ áÇíÎÝÝ Úäåã ÇáÚÐÇÈ æáÇåã íäÙÑæä
    [002:161] Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allah … [002:162] they shall remain under the curse in Hell for ever, their punishment shall not be alleviated, neither shall they be regarded.

    First of all, according to the hadeeth which is attributed to the prophet he said that any hadeeth contradicts with qur'aan then it is a fake one, secondly, is this a saheeh hadeeth, where can I find it in Arabic, did they quote it fully? Thirdly, he said: "Verily a day would come over hell when there shall not be a single human being in it" The second hadeeth explained it,"Verily a day would come over hell when it will be like a field of corn that has dried up after flourishing for a while" not for ever

    And they didn't mean so, BTW do you now the meaning of ''Khalideen''? It means for ever!
    Here is a Hadeeth
    "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153). He didn't say he will be punished in the hell; HE will be one of the people of Hell, actually we don't need hadeeths, Qur'aan is VERY clear with so many verses
    "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
    Read this
    Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇú æóÙóáóãõæÇú áóãú íóßõäö Çááøåõ áöíóÛúÝöÑó áóåõãú æóáÇó áöíóåúÏöíóåõãú ØóÑöíÞÇ ÅöáÇøó ØóÑöíÞó Ìóåóäøóãó ÎóÇáöÏöíäó ÝöíåóÇ ÃóÈóÏðÇ æóßóÇäó Ðóáößó Úóáóì Çááøåö íóÓöíÑðÇÁ
    [4.168-169] verily, those who disbelieve…Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way Except the way of Hell to dwell therein forever
    æóÚóÏó Çááå ÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞöíäó æóÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞóÇÊö æóÇáúßõÝøóÇÑó äóÇÑó Ìóåóäøóãó ÎóÇáöÏöíäó ÝöíåóÇ åöíó ÍóÓúÈõåõãú æóáóÚóäóåõãõ Çááøåõ æóáóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈñ ãøõÞöíãñ
    [9.68] Allah has promised the hypocrites and the disbelievers, the fore of Hell; therein shall they abide forever. it is enough for them. Allah has cursed them and for them is the lasting torment.
    ÝóÇÏúÎõáõæÇú ÃóÈúæóÇÈó Ìóåóäøóãó ÎóÇáöÏöíäó ÝöíåóÇ ÝóáóÈöÆúÓó ãóËúæóì ÇáúãõÊóßóÈøöÑöíäó
    [16.29] So enter the gates of Hell, to abide therein for ever
    BTW, how do you explain this?
    Åöäøó Çááøåó áÇó íóÛúÝöÑõ Ãóä íõÔúÑóßó Èöå
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him
    How do explain it?

    Very simple, that because probably you belong to Ahmadiyya Muslim community

    I already wrote the English translation for it? Didn't I? Check it again

    Hey, are ya messing things up, you misquoted the verse and by doing so it gave other meaning! Go and read my post again =) it would be much better if we discuss the verses in Arabic

    Do you mean the world Khalideen? You are kidding me, which verse say so + if a word has 2 meanings it doesn't mean you will choose the one which you like ;)

    That verse was talking about the evil-doer Muslims not the disbelievers =)

    When did Ahmadiyya established? And don't say some scholars =)

    HEY!
    THIS IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS IF IT DOES MAKE SENSE OR NOT, THIS IS UP TO HIM, I OWN A COMPUTER IT IS IDLE I WILL BURN IT DOES IT MAKE SENSE! ISN'T YOUR BUSINESS IT IS MINE, why if someone denies the holocaust in Germany will be punished? It is their country they have their own law, Allah already gave proofs yet the reject THAT HOW DARE THEM!, HE already warn them if you will reject this, YOU WILL BE IN HELL FOREVER, haven't you ever read these verses:
    ÇÚáãæÇ Çä Çááå ÔÏíÏ ÇáÚÞÇÈ æÇä Çááå ÛÝæÑ ÑÍíã
    [005:098] Know that Allah is Severe in punishment and that Allah is OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
    Yes, if he punished then he is sever in punishment, when he forgives, gives you all these chances that you may return, when He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous in this life, when you disobeys him over and over again, yet still didn't punish you, but provide you RIZQ!!!!! when The door of Tawba is always open to repent etcetera HE IS THE MOST MERCIFUL?
    Again, one enough example
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him


    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  18. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Ozy

    Once again what's your point is it that nobody will be in hell nor paradise forever? I prefer to discuss the Quraanic verses in Arabic, anyway, Leave the English translation, which word Allah chose? The word is Khalideen? What does Khalideen mean =)

    Write what you want me to argue, I don't care what they say, I care about what Allah said.

    Ok, but let's finish the verses under discussion first =)

    The word in Arabic is Khalideen which means FOEVER, BTW They shall remain under it. What does remain mean? Qur'aan in English is the translation of the meaning and it gived the same meaning
    ArberryRodwell translated it as FOREVER!

    Indeed you are kidding me, what is hell, when Allah says there will not be any parole; I'm still in the Hell!!!! Do you know what hell includes? E.g. I will but you in a cage full of snakes, this cage I call it hell, I put you there and you will never be released or there will be no parole? What does this mean, snakes will be with you biting you forever, i.e. eternal punishment =)

    Nope, and please I need the haddeeth in Arabic not English, once again:
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him

    Come on ;)
    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  19. Ozy

    Ozy Member

    cat, i've understood khalideena to mean "lasting"/"enduring". not permament.

    each of the examples you gave could also mean that.

    apparently this site does as well:

    http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/009.asp

    It makes sense to me when i combine this w/ the hadeeth that i provided you with.






    i dont see anything here! my computer doesnt recognize what you say sometimes. it's just a bunch of random characters here....???[​IMG]

    )

    "The desire of increase in worldly possessions beguiles you till you reach the graves. Do not set your hearts upon the world. You will soon come to know the vanity of your pursuits; again, you will soon come to know how mistaken you are in pursuing the world. If you had possessed the certainty of knowledge you would surely see hell in this very life.....

    is this hell permament???? no!



    "But you will see it with the certainty of sight in your middle state (Barzakh), then you shall be called to account on the Day of Judgement and the torment will be imposed on you and you will know hell through your experience (102:2-9)."


    there are different stages in hell.

    The Holy Quran, as I have already said, does not teach that those in hell shall suffer everlasting torments; and this is an important consideration which conclusively settles the question that hell is meant for the advancement of man and for his purification. There is no doubt that the abiding of evil-doers in hell is mentioned in some verses of the Holy Quran to be for "abad " which sometimes means prospective eternity, but " abad" also signifies a long time. And there are numerous passages in the Holy Quran showing that those in hell shall ultimately be taken out.





    in ch. 6: v. 129, the Quran says: "God said, Verily the fire is your resort to dwell therein unless thy Lord will it otherwise, verily, thy Lord is wise and knowing." On another occasion, those in hell are spoken of as "staying therein for years" (ch. 78: v. 23). The original word is "Ahqab" which is the plural of "huqub", meaning a year or years, or seventy or eighty years, or a long time (see Lanes Arabic Lexicon).


    i dont have much more time but here you go:
    The statement that the evil-doers will abide in hell only for a limited number of years shows clearly that, according to the Holy Quran, the torments of hell are not everlasting, for infinite time cannot be measured by a finite number of years. Again in ch. 101: v. 6, hell is called a "mother" of those who shall go into it. The use of this word is, I think, the clearest evidence as to the true nature of hell as described in the Holy Quran. What is meant is that, as a child is brought up by the mother, so those in hell will be brought up in that place for a new life, the life of perpetual advancement in paradise.

    It is true that the Holy Quran also speaks of hell as a place of torment or tortures, but these torments according to the Holy Book are remedial. Just as a patient has to devour bitter medicines and undergo operations and amputations which are most painful, but which are undoubtedly the only steps which can restore him to health; so also it is with torments of hell. They are not only the natural consequences of the poison of sins, but, at the same time, the torments are the most necessary steps to undo the effect of the poison and breath into a person a new life in which he must go on making unending progress. Thus hell is also a manifestation of the mercy of God, though of different kind, from heaven.

    The one, hell, is a place for restoring health to those who have destroyed it by their own actions in this life, while the other, heaven, is a place for the advancement of those who enter into the other life with their spiritual faculties unvitiated. In fact, so clear, is the teaching of the Holy Quran on this point that none but a most superficial reader could overlook it. Again and again, the Holy Quran speaks of the workers of iniquity as blind, deaf, dumb, dead, meaning of course that they themselves have wasted their spiritual faculties, and accordingly, before they can make any spiritual advancement in the attainment of that highest goal of the human soul, the union of God, they must be subjected to the operations which should restore the action of those faculties.

    In clearer words still, the Holy Quran tells us that "those who are blind in this life shall find themselves blind in the next," which means that as they did not make use of the opportunities, given to them in this life, to use their spiritual faculties, they will find themselves devoid of these faculties in the next, and will palpably feel the pain and anguish which are the necessary result of their loss and which they were unable to feel in this life because of their engrossment in worldly things.

    But the mercy of God will soon take them by hand and they will, after passing through all the stages through which it is necessary to pass to regain the use of the lost faculties, attain the real object of their lives. They will be purged of all uncleanliness, for this is necessary to attain to a perfect union with the Divine Being who is the source of all purity.



    also look up ibn taimiya & ibn al-qayyim's commentary.

    good luck.





     
  20. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Qzy

    Excuse me, I'm talking about the Arabic language of Makka, middle-east
    Check This can you find lasting or enduring

    Try this, go to ''view'' è ''Encoding'' è ''Arabic-windows'' if it doesn't work tell me

    Sorry, read it again =)
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him

    Read to who Allah is talking to ;)

    Read the previous verse he is talking to Muslim evil-doers, not Kuffar

    You picked this interpretation; other scholars have other interpretation dude ;) it is better to study Arabic

    Are ya sure it is so for kuffars and moshrikeen
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him
    [032:014] "Taste ye then - for ye forgot the Meeting of this Day of yours, and We too will forget you - taste ye the torment of Eternity for what you used to do

    What do you mean by the union of God?

    Of course not only because of this , THEY SAID NO TO ALLAH by rejecting his message, they are also NO to paradise

    Union, what do you mean, astaghfirullah, what a blasphemy.
    __________________________________
    You can ignore all what I wrote, but I want your comment on this:
    [4.48] verily, Allah forgives NOT that anything should be associated with Him


    *Peace and Love*
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice