is there victory in defeat?

Discussion in 'Old Hippies' started by mariecstasy, Jun 1, 2004.

  1. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    when life is causing feelings of pain, sadness and emptiness are we supposed to give in to them, let them defeat us, die and have a rebirth? or are we supposed to fight it with all we have and look towards the hope and faith we have to create out better days? are we found in out defeats or out fights?
    i have always felt that our fights help us to find our strengths. i've always been strong, but here lately my energy is depleting, i feel deflated and it is happening fast. its not like there is a small prick hole instead my valve has been opened. i feel likt the storm i am weathering is acid rain and it is poisoning my spirit. i'm not sure if this is supposed to be happening to me or if i'm supposed to keep fighting. cause to tell you the truth i am losing my strength, i know i have more that i could dig deep and find but i'm not sure if i am supposed to. perhaps the problem is i am fighting that which i am supposed to let defeat me and in the defeat i will find my victory. or am i just falling into depths of despair? is it my adversary trying to trick my mind into giving up?
    i'm losing faith, losing pateince, losing light, losing myself. or am i just looking for an excuse to give up? am i just defeating myself?
    i would listen to my heart, but its shut down right now
    that which doesnt kill you makes you stronger, right? well do you sometimes need a death and resurrection?
    perhaps happiness and hope is an escape fromt he realities of lifes harshness. can you ever feel your heart cry? is it the hearts tears that will cleanse?
  2. teepi

    teepi living my dream


    If you were here I would look you in the eye and tell you that you have the answers in your soul, just listen to them.

    I too have had some dark dark times and responded to them in some pretty destructive ways.
    But along the way I seem to have had a revelation that sometimes those times are indeed an actual gift.
    When a change in our life NEEDS to occur we are sent things that will make us react in a different way than what we have been doing.
    We are stronger than we realize, and sometimes we lose our sense of that and something has to jolt us back into our reality.
    What is "victory" what is "defeat".
    Different things to different people.
    A control freak and a gentle soul would view it all differently.

    Look at your whole life and see where this fits in and how you are supposed to use it.
    Feel it, experience it,taste it, look at it hard....then walk away and come back.
    Reflect....then decide.

    Sweetie, I hope this helps.
    Its another chapter in your book.

  3. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    YOUR questions of victory and defeat and the perspective we have on them was what posed this problem for me actually.
    i know that these days of pain and confusion are for my betterness. however, i am getting tired. i have always had a lot of struggles to handle in my life. i accept this.i am just tired. im worn. but i will press forward, i suppose. i was just wondering if we are ever supposed to just let life win

    by the way........i came in here cause you all are the wise owls on the board:)
  4. homebudz

    homebudz Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Nobody said life would be easy,and it ain't.Fact is,most of the time it sux.Look around at all the hate and despair,and fuckin' wars.Yet,there is hope.With that we go on,mostly just surviving but we do go on.For me at any rate,I never give up or give in.Ain't in my nature,and I suspect it's not in yours either.I firmly and honestly believe that there is a silver lineing in every dark ass rain cloud.When things go to shit,I look for that lineing.It's my nature.When things are dark for you,look for the silver lineing.Count the blessings you have and be thankfull.There is always someone else who has it worse then you.Never give up.Never cave in,and mostly,don't lose the faith.You will get thru the rough times your experiencing now,and yes you will be stronger for it.For the "what it's worth dept",you have friends here that will listen.

    peace and blessings,
  5. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    i was thinking that. i was thinking and life has shown me to not cave in. i just didnt know if sometimes it was inevidable.

    hell no it isnt in my nature to give up. i have come too far. i think i am just feeling sorry for me. i know people have it worse, sheesh. there is so much that i do have, but .........when you are losing your are losing everything, no?
    and silver lining.........thats what my daughter's name means.....her name is arianna
  6. teepi

    teepi living my dream

    I believe we must pick our battles wisely, sometimes it really is small stuff and to go too hog wild or crazy dwelling on them gives them far more power over us than they deserve.

    I used to think I HAD to win every arguement with my ex, that it gave me POWER over the relationship.
    Did I win ??? Or by fighting the battle did I lose the war??

    It is our own perspective on defeat and victory that counts.
    Just as what might be important to you is just a nuisance to me.

    We must find our own way, take it all in and decide what is best for you.

    I did not pose my previous post questioning this... I was trying to point out that we look at things like this from different perpectives.
    Where you are on YOUR journey, in the here and now, will affect how you react to what is presented to you at any given time.

    And how you react now may not be how you would at any other time.

    This life is a gift and we are supposed to live it, there will be times of questioning, and there will be times when the answers are ridiculously obvious.
    And God knows there will be times when we are so tired of dealing that to lay down and die would seem like a blessed relief.

    Those times are when we need to take stock of our path. In every aspect and decide what we really need.

    What got you to this point????What CAN you change RIGHT NOW???
    Start with yourself and start small if it all seems overwhelming.

  7. luvndrumn

    luvndrumn Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    First things first...

    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG HUG HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

    A while back, me and my wife were having a tough time with our daughter. She was, in a word, hateful. Hateful to us, hateful to very good friends who never were anything but supportive. One night, after an especially ugly incident, I walked out on the deck and just stared at the stars. After a while I asked whoever, whatever "What do I do?". I kept staring at the stars, nothing in my mind. Suddenly came the word "Patience". There was nothing in my mind and then "Patience". I said "Okay, patience". Then I gutted it out, held my tongue, and let her work it out. We have a wonderful relationship. I often wonder what it would be like if I had forced things.

    Sometimes, patience is all we have. Sometimes, patience is all that we need.
  8. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    thanks i was typing that part about losing patience....i was getting that whispering too.
    deep breaths huh? and then patience
  9. teepi

    teepi living my dream


    That is so true...
    I have always believed the answers are there,we just need to be quiet and listen for them.

    That is great that you were led to the right place and practice what you needed.
    I can tell by just that post that you are a great dad, and I'm sure this was not a one time but a life lesson for you.
    I too haad some troubled times with my daughter Sarah and with patience and observation instead of force and activity we came together.

  10. ~Sam~

    ~Sam~ Cosmic Traveler

    Balance... You hear it all over the place. One needs balance. Kenny tells me this all the time. I tell him; "I'm very balanced, Ken. I have all this good over here, and all this upset over there. I'm in the middle of this toronado as the Center. Things and feelings come into the center, I deal with them, feel them, experience them, and they go out again. And I'm still here in my Center... I'm Very balanced."

    Have you had a Reading done lately? Perhaps someone else, looking in from the outside of your center, can see the things you're missing.

    Please forgive my jumping in to this conversation...

    What I do, when things get out of whack, is to take a mini vacation. Find someplace where I can be still and listen to the Universe. Take some deep breathes. Chill for as long as it takes.

    If this doesn't work, I just keep putting one foot infront of the other and allow the passage of, what we perceive as, time to take the edge off the crummy feelings.
  11. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    please dont apologize. i wanted your wisdom. inwardly i have a zeal to move forward. i have alot of fight in me. i think i do need a vacation, but that isnt in the cards. but...................i didnt know if we are ever supposed to just surrender.
  12. Southernman

    Southernman Boarischer Rebell

    When I read your posting the 1st time, I wanted reply at once, but I didn't know with my limited english, what to write, actually I don't even know at the moment, what to write (only in english, in german no problem), but I'll try to describe my thoughts by reading this thread and what helps me in moments like this.

    My 1st thought was, go out in the nature, leave all human made environment behind you, no better way to find back to yourself and to your place in this universe. This works for me even for only some hours beeing outdoor, when I have not the time to go on holiday. I searched and found in the woods some very old cult places of the celtic people from here, more than 2000 years ago, nearby my home, which the catholic church missed to overtake. I don't realy believe in things like Ley lines, 'Radiaesthesie' and 'Geomantie' (don't know the english equivalents), but even I, as a total agnostic can feel some good vibrations there. Your Indians should know such places too and even only the try, to find such places could help, to bring other thoughts into your mind.

    My 2nd thought was, but this is very individual, that I've the ability, by taking a old fashioned book to dive under and leave all behind me for the moment and not let bad thoughts become bigger and bigger. Ever
    read 'Zen and the art of Motocycle Maintenace' by Robert M. Pirsig? It showed me up several philosophical ways for handeling Problems.

    My 3rd thought was, you posted your problem here at this forum and this was the best idea. Sometimes it helps a lot, just talking to others about the problems and may be get new perspectives.

    Welcome here sister and hold on,

  13. ~Sam~

    ~Sam~ Cosmic Traveler

    Geeze! That's a tough question. I read it, and had to go away and think about an answer...

    I would say... the only time I would surrender is when I know that I am truly finished with this life and they're ready to receive me on the otherside.

    Stilling the inner dialog, as Old Wolf would say, and listening to your surroundings, is not what I would call surrendering.

    Neither is a mini-vacation of the mind. Which is what the previous paragraph more less says.

    I like what Southernman wrote to you too. But if you can't get away from it all, try some quiet music... classical seems to work for me....

    Where are you in MD? You can always come to visit me. PM me for details... No, I'm not kidding. I'm only 3 miles from the MD border above Manchester.

  14. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    southen.funny you mention that book, i am about 1/4 way through, i set it down about a month ago. is it time to pick it up again?

    i'm in southern maryland, south of annapolis sam.
  15. ~Sam~

    ~Sam~ Cosmic Traveler

    Long drive, Marie. But if you're ever in this neck of the woods, give me a holler, Kay?

  16. "...and this too shall pass...." but sometimes, it seems like the pain will go on doesn't....there really is a light at the end of the tunnel.....and yes, you must hold on, for yourself, and for Arianna. I used to hate it when that voice in my head would say...."you'll be a much stronger person when this is all over" It didn't help with the pain much at the time though, hearing that old cliche' but it's true. It helps to come to these forums and bear our souls sometimes. There are some real people in here, I can tell, and you're among friends in here marie, even if we are all cyber-friends....

    Don't give up, don't surrender. There is a beautiful light, all around you. Take some time for yourself....meditate, read, cry, be still, love, find solitude, and just be....
  17. kwicksandiv

    kwicksandiv Member

    ;) Oh sweetie I have been there many times in my life. I have been given many crossses to carry. When I was in my late 20's and 30's those were some times of growth and pain and learning lessons. I think you are on the right path just because you are so aware of whats happening to you. Keep moving forward and try to grab onto the simple things that make you happy. Schedule time for the things you enjoy. Partake in some guilty pleasures and hold on because there is a purpose for this saddness and pain. Inner peace is something that is not easily achieved. It takes time and practice. What you are going through is all part of life.

    I always looked at it this way how could we know happiness without saddness or love without hate. We have to have the bad times so we can recognize the good time and truly appreciate them.

    ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) and good thoughts coming your way.
  18. WhatIs

    WhatIs Member

    >>when life is causing feelings of pain, sadness and emptiness are we supposed to give in to them<<

    The state of your spiritual development will determine what you do with negative emotions. Life does not cause feelings of [emotional] pain, sadness and emptiness. You cause your feelings. The truth of this may be seen in the fact that different people will react to the exact same situation very differently.

    I know people who obsess on anything negative; when their current situation is fine, they dwell on past pain or focus on the future with anxiety.

    There are also many people who are in a state where negative emotions are simply recognized and let go.

    It is unfortunate that mainstream society does not promote spiritual well-being. It does, in fact, promote the opposite. You have to dedicate yourself to spiritual development. There are guides, if you look.

  19. mariecstasy

    mariecstasy Enchanted

    The state of your spiritual development will determine what you do with negative emotions. Life does not cause feelings of [emotional] pain, sadness and emptiness. You cause your feelings. The truth of this may be seen in the fact that different people will react to the exact same situation very differently.

    i was thinking this as well. its funny that nearly all these comments are what i wrote in my journal the other evening.
  20. GoodKarma

    GoodKarma Member

    I love what everyone has had to say in this thread...there is much enlightenment. We not only have to deal with personal issues these days, but have so many external factors that contribute to the negativity. It's sensory overload with war, terrorism, poverty, hunger...the list goes on and this is on top of financial problems, marital stress, raising teenagers...the list goes on. So there is never a breath of fresh to speak.
    I agree with helps me to take a mini vacation in my mind. I put on music...clear my thoughts and meditate. For those few minutes...all is quiet and well in my world. Lots of sunshine never hurts either.

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