Is there anything more ridiculous...

Is there anything more ridiculous than someone praying in a language he doesn't understand?

I was just thinking about a friend who considers himself a Hare Krishna, and he does chants and prayers out of his books in a language that he doesn't even understand.

If I wanted to, I could invent a religion and write a holy book based around a mix of ancient Mexican mythology and catholicism, and market it in America. If it became popular, how many people would say this prayer if I printed it in the book as a great prayer to bring you cheese sandwiches and long life foreverandever.

Hola, cómo es usted. Tengo un coche amarillo y tengo gusto de conducirlo muy rápido, aunque el aire acondicionado está quebrado así que puede conseguir muy caliente en los meses del verano. Tengo gusto de Jesús, amen.

which means:

Hello, how are you. I have a yellow car and I like to drive it very fast, although the air conditioning is broken so it can get very hot in the summer months. I like Jesus, amen.

And thousands of people would be telling god about their yellow car every day.

Lesson of the day kids: pray to whatever or whomever you wish, just do it in a language you understand. The gods don't want to hear you read a script, they want to know what is in your heart.

May the force be with you.

 

Hari om!
You make a good argument.
prayer must indeed be in a language yu understand. But, the vedic hymns, bhagawd geeta and many sacred hindu and bhuddhist chants are created in such a way that, even those who do not understand the words may chant them, in order to create harmony and good effects in their surroundings. Everything has an effect on everything else in teh universe. Vedic chants were created in such a way as to have purifying effects onm the surroundings.

The other thing is, mantras and chants can be used to focus the mind, to discipline it and to make it constantly focus on the god ideal, in this case krishna. This has a great effect on the mind making it subtler and pure. I think that chanting vedic mantras, with or without knowing the meaning, is a far far better way of using your time than most things folks do.

And finally, if he derives some kind of solace, some comfort from this chanting, good for him! Why should you get so agitated over it! He enjoys it he does it. I dont see the joy in baseball, but that is no reason for me to ridicule those who do enjoy it.

All that said, it would a hundred times more benefial to him if he did in fat take the time to study and understand the scriptures than merely providing lip service.

 

Intention is more powerful than language.
Sound is more than noise.

I agree, you should know what you say. But I think few poeple ever do...

 

I can understand what you are saying...but it could be that by learning his mantras he is learning another language as well...what' s wrong with that. Also, the Hare Krishna mantras are just as Bhaskar said...they bring happiness and concentration...and many other good things. There could be worse things than praising the Lord, don't you agree?

 

Folks like the Hare Krishnas believe that their 'sacred words' have some inate power - this is true also of others, practitioners of western magick for example.

Personally, I don't think the form of words is so important, it is the inner consciousness that matters.

Interesting that the Catholic Church did away with their latin mumbo-jumbo some time ago.

 

LOL good point.
It is ridiculous. Surely if someone was a true hare krishna or whatever they would take the time to learn what they were on about.


TTFN
Sage

 

Hey, I'm not trying to bash on Krishna here, it just seems to me that in something as personal and possibly profound as a prayer, the meaning of the words is more important than the sound of the words. The same goes for chanting, you could chant any words with good rhythym and get pretty much the same effect. Chanting is very much like singing, but while singing gives one a more externalized joy, chanting brings a a more internalized joy. I think it would be much more productive to chant and pray something that really means a lot to you than to just read a script.

 

How do you know what he was chanting did not mean a lot to him...Yes, the meaning is more important than the words, I agree. But the words themselves have their own power.

As sebbi said, this power of the words may be only in your mind. So what! The mind itself is the most powerful thing, considering that the entire world that you see, could be nothing but a projection of the mind. Magic is everywhere. The very fact that those bunch of atoms chose to huddle together and make something as beautiful as crystal is magic.

All western science is empirical. It boils down to that. The very basic principles are empirical. Gravity was proved by observation. In 99.999999% of cases it may hold good. But people can levitate. How!

The law of conservation of energy and mass...empirical. How did jesus multiply food...How does caroli baba materialise objects... There are many many many things unexplained by science, limited as it is in its vision.

Everything in the universe affects everything else. A particular sound, it has vibrations, thats how sound propagates. These vibrations have their effects on the surroundings. Everythign afffects everything else. Thats how the balance of nature works. Thats how this magnificent web of the universe works.

 

On leviatation and materialisation (and if you feel like it, walking through walls), the science behind it is pretty simple.

Things become what they are expected to become. (I would explain it but I already have: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7567#poststop

Hold out your hand in front of you and imagine the neutrinos in your hand (I think the author meant neutronium but anyways)(hypothetically "hand neutroniums"). Now imagine the neutroniums in the air near your hand (hypothetically "air neutroniums").

Now move your hand to where you visualised the air neutroniums. The neutroniums haven't actually moved they have just changed state. The air neutroniums have turned to hand neutroniums and vice versa.

With this in mind (as something we do all the time, [literally, once this stops happening time will stop]) imagine how subtle a force it would need to change a few air neutroniums into crystal neutroniums and like wise with levitation.

Not as mystical as you thought is it.

Blessings

Sebbi

 

I think it's very similar to poetry. The sounds and the pronunciation of them is sometimes more important than the conceptual content. And some languages are very powerful in this aspect.

By the way, you should improve your Spanish

 

I do not insist upon what I say. you may or may not believe me, there was I time when I wouldnt acept such things either.


The point I was making is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the practises of jesuswasamonkey`s friend. Indeed, I believe it would have many good effects on him, though I agree it would be better if he understood the words.

 

What is the Krishna friend's true motivation? Is it truly spiritual evolution and enlightenment? (or Hare Krishna equivalent--I am totally ignorant to that religion) Or is it about being a Hare Krishna?

What I mean is: is he seeking God, or is he seeking attention of some sort?

Religion has the bad tendency to create showboats out of some people. We somehow believe that if we can fool our neighbor into thinking we've got it all figured out, and salvation is ours! that we can then proceed to persuading ourselves and God of the same thing. It's a lot easier, it seems, than actually going to that place by the slow and steady vehicle of Truth. Of course, others know that a quick fix is a bag full of tricks.

If its all about tricks, then it is ridiculous, maybe, but more than that, it is a tragic shame, and can lead to irreversible consequences.

Regardless of the vibrational power of the spoken word, which I will address shortly, the understanding of who you pray to and why you pray is far more important than prayer by recitation. Vibrations are a vital part of metaphysics, but are not a sure passage through the small gate to the narrow road. Something more is required. That is faith. Faith is a blind belief, but I don't think it can be fostered and nurtured in one's self by chanting words less meaningful than pig latin.

I have meditated with chants and mantras, even knowing what they meant. But I have had far greater success with words which were meaningful to me. Spirituality is a personal thing, and we are allowed to personalize it.

As for the importance of words. The Creator is the origin of all thought.(God) The Word is the embodiment of thought, the offspring of thought, the name of the thought. (Jesus)
(substitute your preferred dieties, I'm just going with the ones I know)

All matter is subjective, vibrational, and is a product of thought. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword. Many an empire has toppled, many a war has started on the mere utterance of a word. Draw your own conclusions.

I am a poet, not a self designated one, as I had to be convinced by others that was indeed my talent. I do agree that the sounds and rhythm of words can be what makes a poem rather than the conveyance of concept. I personally like to "play" with words and sounds. But the poetry which will endure to impact the consciousness and lives of others for many generations to come is that which has a meaning and feeling reachable for the man reading it. If the man can relate, he will be gifted by that poem. If he only likes the way it sounds when he reads it out loud, and can find no other meaning or purpose in it other than that, then he will be entertained. Poetry is a very subjective art, but so is spirituality. Its not the sounds we make with our mouths which carry the most weight, it is the true and unashamed whispers of our heart that pull us through the hard times, and the not so hard times.

 

"heya haya heya"

on the face of it this might seem rediculous

but i wonder if not what we are thinking and feeling

when we say them

whatever we say

in whatever form

may be more the meaning

then any words or the meaning of words

"heya haya heya"

saying words we do not know the meaning of
or even sounds that have no translatable word meaning at all
may be a higher and purer form of prayer

"heya haya heya"

some prayers we do not know the word meanings of
may even be a kind of poetry of spirit feelings
that the words invoke or vibrate as they flow through us

"aaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"



nemeste

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