Is there anyone left who doubts we live under corporate fascism??

I think pretty much everyone knows it now... forget about the divides among Republicans and Democrats, because even a lot of Republicans have a populist rage built up against the mega-banks.

The mainstream version of the left-right debate is a fix designed to divide the people between those who blame the government and blame corporations. In reality they have merged into one sector of cooperation and growth, which is what makes it fascist.

JP Morgan, Exxon, Citibank, Chase, Goldman Sachs, McDonalds etc... *are* the "government" on the highest level. They control the funding of the wars, the rules of our taxation, all of our regulations (one of the vital organs of government).

Universal healthcare should be available from birth, but at least we provide it in retirement although there's a life-long tax. Now the market wants complete control over retirement programs as well, knowing it will be pissed away in gyrations of the market and thus the ruling class (as always) will suck up the wealth. To give a brutal example - you will still have Social Security taken out of your pay, only you will be forced to have it in a "market account" and invest it where you inevitably lose it... Instead of a tax to the government in the classical sense, it would become a fascist state's captive market to serve corporate entities.

We already have a few of those by the way... Government endorsed monopolies are easy to find.

I guess to understand the weight of it you have to be one of those people who has come to the conclusion that Wall St. is a ponzi scheme which serves the same people over and over. It became obvious when it fell apart and had to be bailed-out... we literally reset the whole deck in the same order. Free market my ass, we gave billions to former billionaires who had lost their old billions!

So fuck this corporate fascism and the extremely heavy iron rule of oligarchy it extends over it's victims...

We need an alternative.

 

But that’s the problem - what is the alternative.

I mean the present crisis is all down to neo-liberal hokum but there seems to be plenty of people on these forums and in the world who are still supporting and promoting the dodgy ideology of the ‘free market’.

 

100%

Yup.

This I don't agree with. Whose responsibility should it be to provide others with health care? Health care is something the government should have no right to be in control of, especially for those who like freedom and the right to make their own decisions. The problem with health care is one of cost, which has to do with a number of things. People see that healthcare is so unaffordable, so they automatically look to the government (thanks to educational and media indoctrination) for some kind of solution, when government intervention has had a lot to do with creating market instability, eliminating competition, and therefore driving up costs so they cannot be afforded by average working-class people. The insurance companies work in conjunction with the government to screw people over. The state of healthcare in the US terrible, but handing control of it over to the corrupt government is insane.

I do very much agree that an alternative is needed, I am just doubtful that a genuine one can exist, and I am certainly not going to look to the government to provide that solution.

 

See what I mean – a lot of people seem to think that the way to deal with the problem of neo-liberalism is more neo-liberalism.

Some are open with it others like rat lie and misdirect and try and hid the fact behind conspiracy theories but it means the same – they want to give more power and influence to the same forces that are the cause of the problems.

 

I agree with you in terms of corporations paying government for what they want, and I agree with you that there has to be major change. Bush was definitely bad, but Obama is like 5X worse about this sort of thing.

There are many major corporations that have either profited greatly from Obama or don't pay any taxes or have gotten preferential treatment because they support democrats. I don't think it's corrupt corporations bribing government, I think it's corrupt government extorting bribes from corporations in order to be left alone. Meanwhile the little guys, like us, are being brutalized. If you make $300K a year, you are now subjected to massive taxes. It doesn't matter if you live in Manhattan or Cheboygan. It doesn't matter if you have 2 kids in college or no kids at all. It doesn't matter if you have a child with down syndrome that requires massive financial resources or everybody is cool. Overhead doesn't matter. There could be people making $300K that are barely getting by. But Obama wants more of their money to give to crackheads, ghetto mamas, Syria and Egypt, Solyndra and other frauds, Pelosi and other rich democrats and other friends of his.

We haven't seen a free market economy lately, but if the government would leave us alone, you would see that a free market economy would work. Wall Street isn't the Ponzi scheme, government programs like SS are.

 

Amen, why do people think the government can effectively and efficiently manage our health care, when there is no domestic US policy that is effectively and efficiently managed. Government run health care will lead to death and suffering of many Americans, mainly the poor, as well as many foreigners who come here in an attempt to escape their own government run health care system.

 

if people are so adamant

that they wish to denounce capitalism

for gods sake - denounce all of it.

 

I would have a lot more faith in the anti-capitalist people if they also decried socialism and corporatism, which are part of the same machine.

 

That’s quiet funny coming from known liar and cheat.

The thing is that a lot of the people called anti-capitalists by neoliberals like you are not anti-capitalists they are just not neoliberals.

It is all part of the neoliberal con game, to try and convince people that there is only one form of capitalism (Neoliberalism) and anything else is anti-capitalistic anti-freedom, socialistic and darn right bad.

 

The US has one of the worst healthcare systems in the developed world, if you look at the systems that seem to be more effective and efficient, like those in the Netherlands, Germany, and France, they are all universal in character.

If the US had a National Heath Service it would not only be a better system than the one they have now it would also be a lot cheaper.

The main problem is that the US has a healthcare business while Europe has healthcare services.

 

So they need to put all capitalists worldwide in prison or cut their heads off, like during the french revolution.
Then organize agriculture worldwide so that it becomes stable, organize a stable monetary system and re organize the whole society to be way more tribal, in autarcy and stable, durable again.

There are enough people who have survived thousands of years without destroying their environment and themselves. From those we have to learn again.

 

Isn't that the point though? If you place extreme power in the hands of the few you rarely produce anything but more corruption. It shouldn't be an argument about either complete centralised power or a free market principal.

Balbus captured it perfectly. Being a none-supporter of neoliberalism does not make you anti-capitalism. It's pretty much where I stand.

The role of Government has changed over time, and personally I see their role to be more in the remit of regulating markets and trade, especially of those mega-corporations.

I don't necessarily agree that Government cannot, under any circumstance be trusted to deliver public health service, in the same way I don't believe they're unfit to deliver the public Education. Although it's obvious that for such a thing to exist in places like the USA, transparency within Government and a much higher public participation within government policy would be essential in making it work (Being British, I am a huge supporter of the NHS, though I see it's shortfalls and feel this is entirely down to lack of transparency in Government policy and the lack of local control over health policy. Health care being provided for 65 million people cannot be delivered on centralised policy in my opinion).

I'm not in either mind really. I feel as though people should have the right to earn what they can, as long as they make contributions to the greater society in line with their wealth. Whether you want a private health care which is affordable and cost effective, or a government delivered public health service they boil down to the same thing. My only real opinion is that the ability for a nation such as the United States to use its massive buying power in being able to buy high volumes of essential drugs and treatments and very low costs is absolutely essential, but alas this is not the case, or in fact within the scope of law.

 

so what are you gonna do about it? make a sign? have a protest? post an angry message on a hippie forum? you think that gonna change things? you think all these dudes and dudettes are gonna put down the bongs and grab ak-47s and molotov cocktails and actually do something to create "an alternative"? you don't even know what alternative you want. go eat a mickeyDs hamburger man and calm down

 

think about what you just wrote. do you have any freakin idea how ridiculous it is? do you have any freakin idea how many capitalists there are??? the whole freakin population of freakin china is capitalist, bro. you gonna start there? with what army are you gonna accomplish this little task of beheading all capitalists. even the russians are capitalists man. if you gonna do it you better get started cuz its gonna take a few thousand years to cut off all them heads. oh, btw, when you start cuttin off capitalist heads be advised all them motherfuckers ain't gonna go peacefully to the guillotine or whatever. they might resist. and since they got all the guns and the keys to the arsenals and the launchpads and the aircraft carriers you might find yourself with a JDAM right up yo ass. I mean good luck with it, man

 

De

What is your idea, your alternative?

 

We have now almost the same situation as during the begin of the french financial crisis end of the 1700s

its only much much bigger and worldwide this time

so the outcome risks to be way bloodier and widespread, we alreyady have more wars going on in advance. Its already bloodier than at the same point 225 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vingti%C3%A8me

 

people sayin we need to be cuttin off capitalist heads ain't helpin the problem. you gonna have to cut off oprah's head...bill gate's head...steven spielbergs head...you cut off oprahs head you gonna have about 10 million angry women after your ass. and don't think she ain't a capitalist. shes bigtime capitalist. and don't think bill gates aint one. you didn't get that computer for free. there a lot of people out there who are liberal progressives, who vote democrat who are also bigtime capitalists. spielberg. big time liberal, former hippie. you think hes gonna distribute his billions among the masses, let the po folk sleep in one of his mansions, shit in his toilet, drink his coffee? that aint gonna happen.

what im sayin is if you are gonna be a anarchist at least be a practical one. the vietcong did not get amerika to leave vietnam by cussing or making signs or having a demonstration. they fought. mao did not rid china of the nationalists by bitchin at em. he fought. the bolshevik revolution did not overthrow czarist russia by having a love-in. look at che guevara. lots of folk admire che. they got che posters, they got che t-shirts. they have no clue what he was. he was a soldier. he killed people. shot em dead. he didn't sit around smokin dope waitin for the internet to be developed. he was out there in the jungle fightin.

i ain't advocating violence. i'm just pointing out some historical precedents and realities. like i said on another post radical change of the staus quo don't often happen in a peaceful manner. ridding the world of capitalism ain't like takin over the college library. the entire global economy is capitalism. to overthrow that and replace it with, say, a utopian tribal society based on sharing and cooperation, where everybody's basic needs are fulfilled and people live in peace, is the kind of endeavor that would require an upheaval of insane proportions, violence on an unprecedented level, political cleansing, genocide. in other words a shitload of killin. and more killin after that. and to do it, you would have to have millions of people worldwide, organized, mobilized and committed to die for the cause. because you gonna have to fight tanks, jets bombs whole freakin armies. otherwise all this internet bitchin about "corporate fascism" and "beheading all the capitalists" is just cartoon dialogue.

personally i don't think anybody's gonna change anything. i think were stuck with what we got unless theres a worldwide catastrophe like a nuclear war or an asteroid collision that necessitates a rebuilding of society from the ground up. and even if that happens you gonna have all different kinds of factions who want to rebuild it diferntly from the way you want. more killin. just sayin

 

i wasn't suggesting people need ak47s, by saying we need an alternative i meant more along the lines of having it studied by universities and such. we probably need a hybrid economic system... the details are something that need to be worked out.

 

De

But is saying nothing can be done (so what’s the point in doing anything), helping or hindering those on the right who are doing something?

Can apathy or despondency in the face of the problems be in a way a cause of the problems?

Thing is that sometimes change happens dramatically, with big personalities, bullets and explosions but remember that those things have often been part of stopping change.

But change can happen without those things, it comes about through changes in attitudes and viewpoints.

To me one of the problems with the American political system is that wealth has too much power and influence and that has been gained over many years and through is influence on mainstream attitudes and viewpoints. Many seem to think that neo-liberalist capitalism is capitalism and that anything that isn’t neo-liberalist capitalism is some type of ‘socialism’.

Only when the majority of Americans see that a ‘free market’ is dangerous rather than something to aspire to will change be possible.

 

How about calling it governmental cronyism?