Is the bible the word of god?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Occam, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams

    Yes...or no

    NO 'mostly' or 'some of it'

    It MUST ALL BE , or it is NOT.

    Occam
     
  2. fat_tony

    fat_tony Member

    The bible is largely a history book. I dont know so much about the OT or who wrote it but the NT is a collection of writings by people who knew Jesus. The gospels (accounts of Jesus' life), Acts a record of what the apostles did/went after Jesus' death, letters pretty much as the name suggests written to various peoples by the apostles and revelations some kind of vision had by John (I think), though as I understand it know one really knows how to take revelations. Whether you believe what the apostles wrote is entirely up to you.
     
  3. fat_tony

    fat_tony Member

    As I understand it there are thousands separate scripts surviving from the very early years, limiting the amount of damage that has been done by 'Chinese Whisper' syndrome. I think that modern translation are done from scripts from the time where possible. Although quite how the most original scrips are determined to achieve the best translation I dont know.
     
  4. bamboo

    bamboo Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The first answer...yes it is the work of god (small case). If you read the bible you will see that we are all supposed to be the "sons of god", therefore we wrote it, it is the work of god. The Adventures of Huck Finn are the works of god, too.

    Josephus wrote in the first centuary BCE that Moses wrote in plain words AND in alligory and it was often difficult to know when he was doing what. Josephus was of the priestly class and had served in the temple and I assume his words represnted a fair percentage of "educated" jews of the day. Our understanding of what is written might be better served by listening to some of those closer too the source.
    Is the Bible the Absolute Truth and Holy Word of God...no, I doubt it and could go to length as to why. Regardless, it has been through too many hands and redacted and edited by too many people with preconceived notions as to what it SHOULD say as to what it does say to be that.
    Suggestions. Read about the history of just the English translations of the text starting with the pre-King James versions. Keep in mind that the Apochcrapha (sp) was dropped from the King James by the protestants so even it is not complete.
    Next...Get an EXAHUSTIVE CONCORDANCE of what ever version of the bible you prefer and REALLY study the thing if you want to be a Christian. Learn with your own mind and do not take the words of others until you...yourself and determined it so.
    Next II. Avoid seminaries or other schools. They brain wash you and destroy the human incentave to seek the truth.
    The bible says many things that are down right interesting that NO ONE ever talks about. I might post on those someday.
     
  5. bamboo

    bamboo Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Let me give you an example of Translator bias. The second chapter of genesis king James version says that "god breathed into Adams nostrils and he became a living SOUL". You would assume from that that the word soul (not used up to that point anywhere else in the book) would be a special word or atleast a different word then had been previously used and that man or Adam was some how unique in all of creation because of it...the translator at least thought so. BUT...the hebrew word thus translated had already been use in the first chapter of genisis and NOT in relationship to man. The creatures that swarmed in the seas and such were described with the same hebrew word (nephish) as Adam was described as but the translator does not use the english the same way as the Hebrew.
    Bohu Tohu...without form and void as such in genesis and Jeremiah, translated as "in vain" in Isaiah. hundreds if not thousands of such examples in the various translations. Yes the earlies writers numbered each word and were meticulious in copying the text. It was the translators that had an almost free hand to change the wording un-noticed.
     
  6. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams

    Well friends occam must say your reponse are WAY more rational
    than those replying to occams post on the islam forum.

    A synergy of 'bamboo' and 'fat tonies' response is a very reasonable position

    Occam has no 'faith as such. but believes this universe
    [a small part of reality] does have 'direction'.
    This is not stated as fact... but as subjective opinion.
    Their is much indicative evidence to support it.

    We all seach in our own ways for meaning.
    There is a mindset in humanity that there is NO MEANING.
    That all is a result of the random.
    This occam, drawing on his base of understanding, cannot agree with
    There is also a mindset , mostly CREATED by religion, that ALL is part
    of HIS plan. and we a re but flywheels and cogs.
    This occam, drawing on his base of understanding, cannot agree with.

    There is a middle road, not of the extreme

    Occam
     
  7. fat_tony

    fat_tony Member

    I know that there are more issues with the OT than the NT. The authorship of the early books of the bible is up for debate and the wording does vary. These days (infact for centuries) I believe that teams of scholars work on translations to minismise 'artistic flair' although when translating from one language to another often there maybe words with no direct translation so some degree of opinion is required. Though when the very early books were written there was obviously no such intellectual integrity. Theres lots of info on the web about the authorship of the early bible from the traditional belief that it was told to Moses by God through to more modern theories about metaphor and exagerated stories of real events, some based some less so.
     
  8. Occam

    Occam Old bag of dreams

    tony

    the OT is a disaster for christianity in this age where more than 10% of the populace
    is smarter than rocks.
    The church has no logical answer to logical questions.
    Inadequate

    Occam has not met a preacher yet that could stand to his questions.
    Yet they teach children what life is for.
    The jesuits said...give me a child of six and i will own the man.

    you see...its all about control
    not. understanding.

    Criminal

    Occam
     
  9. JesusDiedForU

    JesusDiedForU Banned

    Occam if there was know doubt in your mind that the Bible was the true word of God would you live and believe according to what God said? Yes or No?
     
  10. bamboo

    bamboo Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The pedigree of the Ot is similiar to what they teach (or used to teach) in grade school civics classes in the USA. It went something like this...the knights of old got tired of the King of England and made Him sign the MAGNA CHARTA, from that we went to English Common Law, then the Declaration of Independence, then the Constitution. All this did was to establish the pedigree of those currently making the laws, running the land, and using jack-booted thugs to kick down your door, etc. It is all about pedigree.

    The OT tried to establish the pedigree of the cats throwing rocks at you for committing adultary or some other minor sin. It goes like this...first ther was God, then Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and his brother Aaron and because WE (they) are in line with God they can throw the rocks. The early hebrew nation was a theocracy and like any legal-judicial system had to establish why the had the right to make the rules and enforce the rules. With Kingships and Tyrants it is often only necessary to say "we got the swords and spears so what we say goes," although by the later stages even they muscled in on the god thing and claimed devine-right.
    The problem isn't the religious or secular tyrants that make this shit up...its the poor schmucks that allow it to go on without question.
     
  11. bamboo

    bamboo Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Some christians think a lot of things...there are perhaps more versions and divisions of christianity than in any other religion. I am afraid that the Christian baby got thrown out with the bathwater a long, long time ago.

    The earliest church or Ebionite church was absolutely jewish in nature and practiced the old testament as such. There are still some "legalistic" versions around today. Just as there are churches that all but deny the OT.
     
  12. bamboo

    bamboo Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    I don't follow any sect and I don't consider myself a Christian as such. I don't consider mysself a Buddhist, or Jainist or Taost or anything else. There is truth in all religion if you look for it. Sometimes you have to look past the present day practitioners completely to see the truth(s) but they are there.
    IF there is a god and he (she, it) created us or helped us evolve into what we are now, then surely this being knew the diversity of opinions, thought and beliefs that we would evolve into. Knowing this, it is easy to presume that the Being left MANY doors open between itself and us and that we closed just as many as we could in our ignorance.
    Mother Theresa exemplified what is taught that a christian should be.
    Ghandi exemplifies what a Hindu should be. And both showed by their actions what "religous" should be. Ideas mean nothing. Beliefs mean nothing. The world of religion is action and compassion for our fellow beings. don't judge christianity by the people who profess the religion and practice nothing of it.
     
  13. zeppelin kid

    zeppelin kid Member

    Jesus freaks...
     
  14. Mixmasterbert

    Mixmasterbert Member

    you need to use your mental filter with all this stuff
     

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