Is Syria the New Iraq?

It's simply not true. Some people are crazy, greedy etc. but, this is why we have the Right to Bear arms. It would still be against the Law to cause harm on one another, so there would be absolutely no hanging or violence. But the government kills people in it's Witch Hunt everyday. 1 Million Iraqis, Americans and, anyone else who's "Suspected of terrorism." The fact you trust THEM more than your fellow citizens, makes me think you are dependent on Government, and just like in 1984, you're willing to shut your mouth and accept it, as long as "Big Brother" is keeping you safe.

Eventually, no. This may be 100-200 years down the line, but ultimately I believe this is the next intellectual awakening of mankind. Government is violence. Government is what we use when peace and diplomacy doesn't work. So, there's hardly a need for government at all.

Obama's a Constitutional Scholar, and he knew as a Candidate in 2007 "The president doesn't have the Authority to go to war without Congress."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNtIoxbbhM"]Rand Paul Syria Hearing. Rand Paul CHALLENGES John Kerry In HEATED Exchange. - YouTube

You don't know me. No one is going to say online they're willing to "fight" the government, because that can be easily misconstrued. But I do work to make the changes I'd like to see. I'm not nieve to believe mankind can work together without constant war! I know Russia has a stake- Syria is their main source of oil. So logically, we shouldn't want to get them mad at us, especially when their is NO EVIDENCE. Even Assad said "There's no evidence." because this "attack" was rebel owned chemicals that either accidentally leaked, or the Rebels did it to gather international support.

And you are one of those Americans acting irrationally due to misguided fear. You're falling for the same lies we heard in Iraq, but at least the Bush Administration cared enough about us to falsify evidence! Obama is trying to play us all as fools "Oh we have piles of evidence, but it's all classified"

Pssssh if that's what you really believe, don't let me talk you out of it..

Just Remember

"War is Peace,
Freedom is slavery,
Ignorance is strength.
Big Brother is watching you."

(please cross your arms above your head and repeat
Ooo- bahhhhhhhh-mahhhhhhhhhhh)

 

Iraq is an analogy for how we Americans have blindly accepted claims from our government even when there is little evidence to verify the claims.
In the case of Syria, its not if weapons were used, but who used them. -(Rebels or Assads regime?)
We don't have enough evidence to truly indite Assad, which is apparent from the White House,s press release. And yet we are. - We Americans need to ask questions about these claims, and not -- like the case of Iraq -- blindly accept possibly false allegations. - - re:Weapons of mass destructions

 

I'd also point out that around the world, including Germany is refuting America's so-call "evidence"

http://rt.com/usa/white-house-syria-evidence-586/

 

It is very true. You just want to pull the wool over your eyes because reality doesn't fit with your narrative. It is against the law now to harm others, Stp, and yet we have plenty of violence perpetrated by "the people" every day.

Stop putting words in my mouth, child. I have said time and time again that I don't trust "the people" any more than I trust "the government". Stick to what I have actually posted and not shit you feel like making up.

Ahh, I see, so you're an intellectual now. People, individuals are violence. Get rid of Government and you will not get rid of violence. Violence will always be with us.

And I believe, as do other people a lot better versed in Constitutional Law than myself, that he got it wrong. The President of the United States, under current law, has the ability to engage in military action for up to 90 days without the support of congress.

I say it all the time. I am willing to fight the government if it comes to it.

So now it is "constant" war? So you concede there will still be war, just not constant war, in your fantasy world?

Why would we not want to get them mad at us? There is zero logic in that statement.

There is no evidence that this attack was carried out by rebels. At least no evidence with any more credibility than the evidence showing it was Assad.

Once again, Stp, I do not support military action against Syria.

 

Government immorality breeds immorality. Soldiers with PTSD, troops who go crazy and shoot up blocks of Iraqis, etc.

And there is Evidence it was carried out by rebels, the father of a Rebel said they were storing Chemical weapons. Assads troops also found granade shells and gas cans full of chemicals which were stamped "Made in saudi arabia" or "made in france"


I think a group of people run our government, and they have for awhile. Laws (such as the war powers act) is their way of concentrating control and power. I know there's some bad people out there, but it'd still be illegal to cause harm or damage anothers property.

I would fight the government if they went overboard. That's the whole reason we have the Second Amendment.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but like the Declaration of the Colonies, I'd rather die a free man, than live as a slave.

 

And that government is made up and elected by "the people". Immorality existed long before this government and all governments, and will continue to exist in your government free fantasy world.

Careful boy, you have no idea what you're talking about. You are not one of us and you weren't there.

And that evidence is just as solid as that being presented against Assad and his forces. Personally, I don't trust a think either side is saying.

And that illegality hasn't stopped people. Why would it stop people in your fantasy world? Who would punish those to violated those laws in your fantasy world?

According to you they are already far overboard.

 

I never said there wouldn't be bad people out there.

I wasn't there. But to say I have no idea what I'm talking about, is wrong. Me, and every other American lived in the shadow of this war. I've lost friends, I have friends who lost limbs on landmines etc. I know what I'm talking about when I say it wasn't worth it. It's no coincidence soldiers are committing suicide in record numbers.

Actually there is no physical evidence against him, even the White house admitted today they can't "prove" it's him, but it passed a "common sense test." Sounds alot like when they were telling us water tanks were definitely carrying Chemical Weapons in Iraq.

Private security, private fire dept. and people protecting themselves. If you're at risk of being killed, you can protect yourself. But there would be alot less crime and violent crime without arbitrary drug laws. If we got to keep all the money the government takes, who wouldn't pay an extra 20$ a week to have police and fire? They wouldn't be very busy, if like I said, we didn't have stupid drug laws and a citizen harrassment squad known as "police."

I think people are too reliant on government. Government has never protected me from a crime, yet 3-4 cops can show up, pat me down and search my cigarette pack when I'm doing nothing wrong!

Even the so-called "Terrorist" plot the FBI "soiled" they orchestrated! Citizens busted more "terrorists" than the FBI. The TSA hasn't gotten any terrorist, yet they violate everyone's fourth Amendment.

The pattern is the government doesn't give a fuck about us, and it's time to lose faith in them. We are 18 trillion dollars in debt, if you have a kid, he/she owes 20,000 dollars to a government who has done nothing for them! You don't see how absurd that is??

I'm glad you disagree with war with syria. But what do you think is the role of the federal government in our personal lives?

 

But you, somehow, think they are creations of government.

And yet you're on the outside looking in; you're a civilian who cannot possibly understand. As such, I suggest you keep your mouth shut when it comes to deciding what is and isn't worth it when it comes to your betters going to war, and how it effects us.

They cannot prove 100%, that is correct. Just like it cannot be proven that it was the rebels who did it.

Who keeps the private security in check? Who keeps the fire department? Who protects our borders?

So if the police never protected you, that means they have never protected anyone? That is a logical fallacy.

I do see how absurd it is, yes. I just don't think your vision/plan to make it all right is in any way realistic. If push came to shove I'd be just as likely fight you and your ilk as I would the evil government.

Sounds like a topic for a different thread.

 

We wouldn't have a problem with Syria if the dem's would have let GW Bush follow the wagon marks in the sand heading north with the WMD's 10 years ago.

Their own fault and im glad it backfired on them. They drew a 'line' in the sand for dubya, But Osama can run loose like a tyrant.

Im glad it will be Russia, Hopfully, To end this and not the US. Im tired of Osama taking credit for nothing except being a media whore and spending $$ like it grows on trees. Maybe in Kenya, Not in the USA.
He needs a reality check badly, Maybe a look at his wife would change things, Who knows. But fact is, We shouldn't have this problem if 10 years ago dubya was allowed to follow footsteps north to obtain them.

 

Sig and Stp I think we're all on the same side. Yogi, the conflict in Syria has been on our military's agenda for longer than ten years. These links are my contribution to the topic. I think we should organize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=SY

 

My complaint is it wasn't good for GW Bush, But its ok now. They didn't listen to johnny mac 2 years ago, Now they are scrambling. Its a cycle we wont get out of until we say nope, You're problem.

 

A-FUCKING-MEN.

I wish there were more true Americans like you, and yet your posts give me hope as I see people awakening to this line of thinking more and more. I truly feel that if we are to progress as a free nation this ideology has to triumph.

 

Oh, I see what you're saying.

 

Sig, I respect you a lot and have utmost respect and thanks for your service. But I can't help but think of my stepdad reading your posts (ret Col US Army), or brother (1st Ranger Battalion now LT in reserves), or my grandfather (ret Col USAF).. all of them are steadfast in their beliefs. And that is what you are trained to be. But I also have almost more friends I can count that were/are enlisted and between all of those sources I know enough from their honest accounts to know we put ourselves as a nation into a situation we shouldn't have. One of my best friends ever, who is a strong and brilliant guy, lets me know if I'm within like.. 30 feet of the vehicle in front of me. He knows it won't blow up but he is aware and thinks and worries about it.

I had and probably to a certain degree have ptsd from growing up in gang territory. So I can relate to it in that sense, when people compare shit who had it easy and never had to be terrified for their lives walking to school or mob beaten/kidnapped/detained/fucked with, guns/knives to the head, fortunately never been shot at directly but I digress. I just think you and STP agree on more than you disagree, just are coming from different perspectives.

 

Right, I do too.

 

AT and Deviate.

I like Sig, he seems like a good guy. I've also heard him talk about the Constitution before so, I see what you're saying; Although, I think sig and I notice our disagreements a little more. But, more often than not, I agree with his posts.

We're sort of arguing about little things one this topic. He thinks the war powers act is constitutional cause our government has not said otherwise. Whereas, I believe it was passed as a way of avoiding the Constitution, like the government loves to do.

 

Alot of it is creations of the government. Drug Laws create so much crime, and turn good people violent. (Drug laws not the drugs.) The Job or police is to harrass people, and try to violate their 4th Amendment without probable cause. The whole system infact, has become rotten through due to corruption of our government. Not all crime is cause by government, but alot, as sane people just want to live life and get by.

This is a weak argument. I have First Amendment Rights, and I, just every American, was involved in this. Not only did the Government start taking away our Constitutional Rights after this "War on Terror;" There is no clear enemy, and in the Homeland they're spying on Citizens who believe in the Constitution/Third party candidates. Meanwhile, we killed 1 million innocent civilians in Iraq.

There's already private security out there. Some less lethal, like mall Security, but you'd also be able to hire Armed Security. (Which I think also exists today with bodyguards etc.) Industries are happy to build companies, where ever there is demand. (This also make the price go down when companies have competition)This mean airplane companies would also be able to put armed guards on the plane to protect us. Like I said, this may be 100-200 years away because people's minds aren't ready, but it will work more efficiently than government.

On a short scale though, I'd like to see troops at our borders, and politicians to stop giving immigrants incentives to come here. Even our drug policy is an incentive, because the Drug Cartels are destroying Mexico!

No. But they don't help or protect people. Actually, you're 8X more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. Also, have you watched the news? just a week ago cops killed a 96 year old with a tazer and a 13 year old boy for spraypainting. And they were giving fives as he convulsed and died. Police are so arrogent, they truly believe they are above the law. I can't say police have never helped anyone, but I think they do more harm than good. Afterall, it can take hours for cops to even show up to a "shots fired" call, and with cops today, I would rather have my gun than 5 cops!!!

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps I'm imperfect to explain these views, but these are ultimately the view of Ron Paul's. A peaceful and voluntary society, where people interact without force or coercion.

But, immediately, while we work toward that goal, that states receive the power of the Federal Government, and work on citizens at a localized level. I believe 313 million people, is too many for a few elites to control! But see we still have a military, police force etc. We'd never be without that stuff, because citizens make it up, and have always.

I think you think just because it has "government" approval, it's better than a citizen, group of citizens or a companies. Whereas, in military Government might be the best of the best, but here at home- everything done through government is expensive and you get very poor service.

But I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

 

Ahhh, so it was the law that made someone do a violent act. Guess it practically pulled the trigger for them, huh?

No, you weren't involved. You stayed home and watched it all on TV. That isn't being involved.

We did not kill 1 million civilians in Iraq

I ask, again, who will police that private security? Who will protect those who cannot afford to hire private security? Who will handle arrests? Who will handle detention? Will those private companies have authority under the law to arrest and hold a trial?

Protecting our borders is a lot more than just keeping illegal immigrants out, Stp. Who will handle protecting those borders, and indeed the country, from foreign invaders?

Here is that bullshit broad brush of yours, painting another logical fallacy.

And Ron Paul is a naive old man who's dreams of a word that will never, and can never, be. That is why his, and your, movement will never gain any real traction in this country.

How will we have a military and police force without some sort of government to administer them?

I never said "government" approval. Stop putting words in my mouth. I distrust our current government just as much as I distrust this nebulous concept of "the people" you seem so keen on.

 

I never said that. But they're putting Marijuana and other God given substances, in with criminals. That's why America has the most overcrowded prison system. Alot of people in jail today are non-violent drug users who got caught with a little bit of dope. Meanwhile, politicians can smoke pot, snort coke or whatever they want, cause cops are never going to harrass or search them. I'm saying we made something that should've been a mental health issue (addictions) and turned it into a Criminal Justice issue, and that was wrong from the start.

So says the guy who "was there." Oh, but you also refute my Friends info that they lie about the official numbers, because you supposibly have never "seen it happen" (or you're totally loyal to BB)

But no one fully knows how many died in Iraq, it range from 112,000- over 1 million

http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/06/07/how-many-iraqis-died-in-

In the free market, people have competition, so prices would drop substantially. Therefore, anyone can afford it. And no, Jury trials will run as they always have with jury duty and all. People can handle arrests and detention at violence or the threat of violence. Theft should also be punished. We don't need power-hungry cops who harrass and arrest people for protesting, writing with chalk and, ingesting "illegal plants."

Soldiers. They do a great job at the Pakastani border, but for some reason the government would rather pay troops to stay there, than to stay home and protect the homeland.

It is NOT a logical fallacy; Police use excessive force EVERY day. They Violate the Constitution purposely everyday and, they lie to citizens everyday. Police believe them, and the rest of their government buddies are above the law. They falsify evidence, kill unarmed people and harass regular citizens. Just because someone works for the "government" doesn't make them more moral or more entitled to carry a weapon. Police/military are just as liable to go crazy as anyone else, and if we keep going the way of government control, we will be in a land of just that. The man can boot you out of your house, kill you, take your gold etc. It's not a Broad Brush, look at how they've change the laws to benefit them

It's happened before. I would say your dreams of having a "balanced" government, was a big lie from the start. They had all the power in the world, but the NEEDED the power not delegated in the Constitution, so they took over. Government has opened a pathway to corruption, and there's no putting pandora back in the box. The government has caused attacks on us as pretext for war, they declare they have the right to KILL citizens suspected of terrorism. It sounds to me like they've declared war on us. That is why I have no faith in the system or government. I said that power would first go to states, but I believe people can form a society without the use of force being imposed on non-violent people.

It's about freedom and trust. All you're doing by trusting the people, is trusting them with their own body, and making their own choices. We've been demoralized to believe killing, stealing and all other crime, is alright if it's done through government to serve the "greater good;" I believe that whole idea is immoral as you're still forcing people to comply with your way of life.

I just meant you seem to have more faith in government, than in citizens; In my experience however, citizens are usually more moral than cops, as cops treat everyone as suspects and not people.

 

You said: "Drug Laws create so much crime, and turn good people violent"

Who is your friend?

Yet you seem comfortable with the 1 million number, despite acknowledging that no one fully knows. I admit that 1 million has a certain shock value, regardless of whether the number is accurate or properly reflects all deaths. Shock after all, not truth, is what you're after here.

I ask again, who will police these private security companies? They would be, by default, non-neutral parties. Who will run the juries? Who will decide who sits on them or not? How will laws be codified? All this is next to impossible with "no government".

Who will train those soldiers? Who will pay them? Who will equip them?

It is a very big logical fallacy. Pointing out that a cop treated you like shit, and then extrapolating that all cops must treat people like shit is a logical fallacy.

On top of it all, if you believe that our laws today are abused, what makes you think the laws in your fantasy world won't be abused?

It hasn't. There has always been "government" in this country.

Could you point out where I said this was a dream of mine? You're putting words in my mouth again.

And I believe you're naive. Force will always be with us, and it will always need to be met with force.

I trust individuals. I don't trust this idea of "the people" you have, no matter how unformed and nebulous that idea is. Corruption and tyranny are still just that regardless of whether it is on the federal or local level. Your fantasy world won't solve any of that.

Then you haven't been really reading a damn thing I have posted.