Is it really true that the scottish hate the english & vice versa?

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by theaveragejoe23, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. So I am a yank that had a buddy when I was growing up that was from somewhere in the West Midlands and I can often remember him saying how much he hated the scottish. I asked him why and he said that the majority of the english hate the scottish and vice versa, that it goes way back and that's just how it is. We were young and I never really asked him to elaborate more on that claim and why he feels that way. So is what he told me true or was he just being bigoted?
  2. Manservant Hecubus

    Manservant Hecubus Master of Funk and Evil

    Once upon a time, Britian had an Empire. They were not very nice about how they acquired their empire. It made a lot of people dislike them.
  3. etherea

    etherea mother of the idiot children

    Cunts, the lot of them! :D
  4. desert-rat

    desert-rat Senior Member

    I think some of this is covered in the story and movie Brave hart . A I under stand there hystory , Scotland has been a U.K. member and indenpent a few times .
  5. odonII

    odonII O

    He was being bigoted.
  6. dhARmaMiLlO

    dhARmaMiLlO Member

    Those that generalise their hate to an entire nation are indeed bigoted.

    There's history, lots of it, between England and the Celtic inhabitants that were pushed to the fringe by Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings & Normans.

    Celts passed their history down oraly and so ancient grudges are easier to keep this way.

    Peoples of Celt descent also tend to exhibit different temperaments to people of Germanic/Norman(French) descent (Saxon etc) (That is a hideous generalisation I know - but nevertheless, it is a seed that causes friction).

    The Romans left and the Angles,Saxons,Vikings&Normans mixed to eventually form England. The Vikings,Scots&Picts mixed to form Scotland. The Welsh stayed primarily Welsh. Ireland had some visits from Vikings and Normans and returning Scots (who were protestant by this time but the Irish were still catholic - more friction).

    As for England and Scotland they've been fighting each other for hundreds and hundreds of years. The English were able to win most of the battles by causing the Scots to fight each other and cleaning up afterwards. Eventually the countries were combined by a Scots king that moved to London and embraced Englishness.

    One example of a grudge comes from rich English landowners in Scotland that caused a genocide of people and culture simply because they wanted more profit from sheep on their estates. (Not dissimilar to what happened in Ireland with the potato famine).
    Check out 'The Highland Clearances'
    Also 'Edward I of England', 'Robert the Bruce of Scotland'

    Braveheart is a Hollywood version of history but does portray the sense of injustice the Scots felt at the time of Edward.

    A more recent grudge comes from the fact that a lot of politic power has been centred in London for the last few hundred years whereas Scotland contributed a large amount to the industrial revolution and the building of Britain's Empire. A lot of money has gone to England from this. Not to mention disproportionate tax revenues. (This sounding familiar to anyone from the US? Want to throw some tea in the bay?) ;)

    You might've noticed I'm Scottish from the highlighting of Scotland's plight a couple of times. But I do not hate English people. That is a stupid generalisation. I do prefer the humour and culture of home though. Just a Celt thing.
  7. Power_13

    Power_13 insult ninja

    Hell, half of England hate the other half. North/South divide.

    Myself, I don't hate anyone because of their country of origin. I'm English, but my family came from Ireland and my surname is French in origin (though we're talking centuries back there). If I participated in the hate, I'd have to kick the shit out of myself.
  8. odonII

    odonII O

    Where is the 'north' and the 'south'? where does that line run?
  9. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    Just save the aggresion for the football matches like normal people :D
  10. dhARmaMiLlO

    dhARmaMiLlO Member

    I always thought Birmingham was South but was informed it's the midlands.
    Maybe there's a line through the city - like a stripey barber-shop pole. :)
  11. Power_13

    Power_13 insult ninja

    There's an old joke about some people (mostly middle-upper class Tory voters) refusing to believe there's anything hospitable north of Watford.
  12. odonII

    odonII O I know it...

  13. BeachBall

    BeachBall Nosey old moo

    Through Watford Gap

    (that's Watford, Northamptonshire NOT Watford, Hertfordshire)

    But ... to answer the OP ... no, the English DON'T hate the Scots and the Scots DON'T hate the English.

    HOWEVER ... the history is complicated. The original occupants of the British Isles were Celts, and the Romans occupied much (but not all) of the land occupied by the Celts. They never occupied the far north, or Ireland.

    The Romans withdrew from these islands at the beginning of the 5th century AD. Germanic raiders (Angles and Saxons) had been troubling the province for a while. Following the Roman withdrawal, the native people were defenceless.

    We don't know EXACTLY what happened, because the historical sources are sparse (they don't call this period the "dark ages" for nothing!!) but, according to Bede, a British chieftan called Vortigern had the idea of hiring the Saxons as mercenaries to fight for his people, rather than raiding them. Which was all very well, until two bright Saxon Sparks called Hengist and Horsa realized that, rather than fighting Vortigern's battles for him, they'd do rather better fighting against Vortigern.

    Now we're in the really dark ages ... the age of Arturian legend.

    Essentially, though, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes invaded the East of the country, and the Britons were driven into the mountainous regions of the West. Wales, Cornwall and Scotland. Only it wasn't called Scotland until an Irish tribe called the Scotti came and took over part of it.

    The Anglo-Saxons established sevgen different kingdoms in the British Isles (the "Heptarchy") ... but bits of Wales remained independent, as did Cornwall, and Scotland and Ireland.

    Then the Vikings and Danes came, and nearly destroyed the Anglo-Saxons, until King Alfred the Great (the ONLY English king EVER to be called "the great") fought back.

    Then they found a modus vivendi and settled down in peace, more or less, until a little spat as to the succession after the death of Edward the Confessor led to William the Bastard's army defeating Harold II's army at Hastings, following which Edward the Atheling was elected king but never crowned, and William the Bastard was crowned king but never elected.

    Then the Anglo-Normans conquered Wales successfully, and tried to conquer Ireland and Scotland, somewhat less successfully.

    Then the English kings fell out with the French kings, leading to the Hundred Years War, during which the Scots got a bit bolshy with the English.

    The English lost their French possessions, and took it out on the Scots. And the Irish.

    Then the English had a Civil War called the Wars of the Roses ... which led to a strong dynasty called the Tudors. But when the Tudors ran out of heirs, the Scots king James became King of England too. And Lord of Ireland ...even though we didn't really have any hold on Ireland beyond the Pale.

    Then King James' son Charles fell out with the English Parliament which didn't want to vote him the taxes to pay for his war in Scotland against the religious reformers, which led to the English Civil Wars (during which Scotland couldn't decide which side it wanted to be on, and tried at different times to be on both sides, without all that much success sin either direction).

    Then the English got totally fed up with Scottish kings and invited a Dutch prince to be their king instead ... and the Scots followed suit. Only the Highland clans didn't want the Dutchman, so at various times between 1689 and 1746 they got all uppity until they were put back down again.

    Then we ran out of Dutch kings, and had some Hannoverians instead.

    Then we had to fight the French again, and were happy to have the Scots and the Irish fighting alongside us. But then when we fought the Germans, the Irish decided to go their own way.

    All of this, however, is pretty much ancient history and nothing to do with the modern world and how we all get along fine with one another.

    We've got absolutely nothing against the Scots whatsoever ... as long as they make sure the midges and the cleggs stay North of the border!!!

    (Except when the 6 Nations is playing, of course ... and then we've got EVERYTHIGN against the Scots ... and the Welsh, Irish, French and Italians. But that's sport for you :mickey: )
  14. odonII

    odonII O

    The line is through Leicestershire....not Birmingham.
    Birmingham is on the fringe of 'the north south divide' - it really depends on where you draw that line.
    If you want to be 'northern' or 'southern'.
    Most people do not decide on the actual divide but rather a divide they wish to have.
    Take your pick.
  15. nz male

    nz male Senior Member

    I like listening to young Scottish woman - just sounds sexy
  16. odonII

    odonII O

    how young? > <
  17. Ulver56

    Ulver56 Banned

    I am English went to Scotland and I was fine. Until I put a Tottenham t shirt on then I was hated quiet a lot. Lol
  18. BeachBall

    BeachBall Nosey old moo

    That would have happened South of the border, too :mickey:
  19. Paulwenz

    Paulwenz Banned

    The English are hated by nearly everyone .

    It is because of how they conduct themselves.

    people who hate the English.
  20. odonII

    odonII O

    The entire population of those counties hate all of the people in England? Are you including all of the governments, too?

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