Is God a Universalist or has he condemned some of us?

Is God a Universalist or has he condemned some of us?

As a Gnostic Christian and Universalist, I have to allow equality to all including women and gays. This is what the Jesus I know taught. That is not the usual Christian position but as a Universalist, Gnostics cannot help this. We happen to think it the most moral position to take. They, Christians and most of the other Abrahamic cults including Muslims are wrong in their thinking.

The bottom line is that we cannot see Jesus condemning any of us, His best works.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:.

Christian dogma says that all that is or was created emanated from God. If so, condemning us would be like God condemning a part of his own body. This is ridiculous to a Gnostic Christian and is why the Jesus we know is a Universalist.

The O.T. does not speak of hell and it’s creation is mostly, --- not always, --- given to Jesus or the N.T. Gnostic Christians would see hell as an immoral construct that no self-respecting God would create.

If we are all a part of God, --- as both Christian and Gnostic Christian dogma suggest, --- then it is logical to say that God would not condemn any of his parts and that God is therefore a Universalist God who has not condemned anyone.

Do you agree, --- or does your God condemn any of us and thus unfortunately backslides from his previous state?

Regards
DL

 

Hell has nothing to do with God, more with people.

 

I agree.

It is a prop in this myth.

Regards
DL

 

I think, God doesn't want to condemn anyone, but at the same time will not tolerate the sin of Satan.

Lucifer was the chief among the angels, and one day he said "I will ascend to the most high." He tried to ascend to the throne of God. So he was cast down out of heaven, taking a third of the angels with him, and God created the lake of fire or "hell" for him as punishment.

So hell was created for satan and his angels, but unfortunately they have gained sway over a lot of people in this life. The people that are under the influence of satan will go to hell with them. Hell was not created for humans, it was created for satan.

God is going to go to every possible measure to save people from hell. His judgement will be righteous. But satan is going to take some people with him.

If God did not spare angels, why would he spare humans?

think about it, do you really want murderers running around in eternity? these people are no longer in the image of God, they are in the image of satan.

how would condemning people be backsliding from His previous state? wasn't the previous state before humans were even created?

if hell is an immoral construct that no self-respecting God would create, then you obviously have problems with our creator my friend. to say that God isn't self-respecting is disrespectful. There is one God, one creator, and different faiths. just because different people believe different things it doesn't affect the character of God. there is no judging God. can a pot judge the potter? or can a creation judge the creator? personally, if I made a pot and then it turned around and started judging me I would probably break it.

 

My god can beat up your god.

 

Lol

 

What!

You post a glowing judgemental report on God and what he does then chastise one for judging differently from yourself.

Pure hypocrisy that.

Is reciprocity not fair play where you came from, and only your ilk are allowed to judge?

Regards
DL

 

Desos

How do you know what went on in heaven? Who was there to report it?

All you believe is man made and man written and to literally believe a book that has talking animals in it is ridiculous.

Seek God but scrap the idol you have created in your book of myths.

As a Gnostic Christian, I encourage the internalization of a myth the same way Jesus preached but to believe it literally is too foolish for words.

Here is how to gain the enlightenment and apotheosis you lack. It is all biblical my friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded"]Alan Watts - On The Book of Eli - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y"]1A Hidden Meanings In Bible - YouTube

Regards
DL

 

Yet your God uses it for us and you still say he did not create it for us. Sheesh.

You make a lot of sense. Not.

Let's see if you have any morals or if like most Christian, yours have been compromised by your religion.

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.

Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.

God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard with hell. Hell used here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because you think God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL

 

rev 12: 7

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

Much easier to answer with garbage about imaginary creatures than to actually have to think eh?

That is why Christianity and most religions are on their way out.

People are beginning to care about morals and your genocidal son murderer has none and it seems that you are just like him.

Regards
DL

 

so if i answer with my own words you are going to say i am using the doctrine of men, and then if i use scripture you are going to call it garbage? if you claim to be a christian then why don't you believe in angels?

Jesus said...

mathew 25:41

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

there you have it. hell is prepared for satan and his angels. not humans. but all humans that bare the image of satan rather than that of their creator will go with him.

revelations 21:8

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

revelations 20: 10

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

if you are a christian, then why don't you believe what the bible says?

 

So hell was created "for satan", but he conveniently allows those humans who use their god-given reason to not believe the fables to spend eternity there in infinite torment?

A christian is someone who believes in jesus christ and follows his ways and life. Jesus did not write the bible; other men did. It is second hand, it is heresay. Do you know who wrote the bible? Do you know who edited it throughout the centuries? Do you know which texts were and were not included, and for what reasons? Do you trust the mortal, sinful minds which constructed this book you base your personal spirituality on?

 

yes. if they can't repent after 120 years then their character is already set, eternally. they will be judged by their deeds on this earth to determine their eternal destiny. not all sinners go to hell.

who is to say that mediocre sinners are going to go to hell?

they have already had their chance to change, during the course of their lifetime on this earth.

you cannot kill the soul. we are eternal beings.

Jesus will judge the saints at the end of the age, and after that judgement there will be another judgement in which all of the saints judge the nations, or the rest of the world.

It was God that saw fit that people should go to hell. Not me. If you are angry about that then you are angry with God.

How can you, as a christian, say that God's judgement is unrighteous?

He doesn't want to see any of his creation perish. God's love for us is immense. He loved us so much that he sent his only Son to die for us so that we might be saved. Jesus loves us so much that he died for us, and then suffered in death for us.

Maybe in the deepest bonds of friendship a person might die to save their friend. Like if two brothers were at war and one took a bullet for his friend. This is the love that God has for us.

 

Yes God will not go past our own free will. But I don't think that people will be condemned just because they opened a book and didn't believe what it said. There has to be a witness to God's word as well. God won't condemn people that have never been witnessed to. He will judge them according to their conscience.

For example, in Jesus' time there were a whole lot of people that never even heard of the gospel. Are those people going to be condemned because they never met Jesus? no. they are going to be judged according to their conscience.

He is going to allow those who chose evil over good to go to hell because He gave us free will.

But I think this conversation has shifted too far into condemnation. God loves us, He wants to see us prosper. Not go to hell.

do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

or do you believe that God is able to preserve His word on the earth?

it is a matter of faith, not reasoning.

the original accounts were written by completely trustworthy men. paul, john, peter and the other apostles and early disciples. Jesus was the firstborn among many brothers. Therefore the words of the saints are very important.

I don't think that their words were corrupted through time.

 

So you believe in uselessly and purposelessly torturing souls even though there can be no possible gain.

That is pathetically satanic.

Who is more likely to do what your God does? God or Satan.

Satan of course. Just as only Satan would promote human sacrifice while you believe your God did.

Regards
DL

 

so you are offended because of hell, and you are offended because Jesus died for you.

Peter got offended when Jesus said he was going to go die at the hands of the pharisees. in response Jesus said, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but of the things of men."

really we are blessed that Jesus died for us. Is it better that one man should die, or that the whole world should perish?

it is because of the evil of satan that people are going to go to hell, not because of the righteousness of God. because they chose evil rather than good. since satan knows he is bound for destruction, he is bent on causing as much destruction as possible and dragging as many people down with him as he can.

It is because of the influence that satan has on men's hearts that Jesus was killed. not because of the righteousness of God.

so then how should God handle the rebellion of satan?

do you think that satan will one day repent and be worthy to come back into heaven? I don't think so, he has already caused so much destruction. how could he be trusted?

so God created the lake of fire so that he might be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

Anyone with a basic understanding of ancient Gnosticism will find this statement hilariously misinformed. Gnostics were the worst sort of misogynists.

 

Education is good.


On Righteousness

The rightousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

Regards
DL

 

I am offended by the low morals you show.

How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL