Is America a free country, or an illusion of freedom?

I would like to know if you think America is a free country, or just an illusion of freedom. That means on the one hand you think we are free to do what wee want in our lives; and, on the other hand another person might think we are regulated, controlled, spied upon and so on. Does America have more laws that other countries? Is the large number of laws an indication of a well regulated country, or just a necessary part of life? Is Costa Rica more free than America, because they have less laws?

 

If you have more people more regulations seem to become a necessity.

 

America was founded with great intention and great ideals, sans the slavery, treatment of Indians and women's rights. But what society is not guilty of same or similar things.

At some point long ago it was sold by the people who hold office. A country where corporations can fund elections is not a country that's free. It's a country that's worth the profit margins of the corporations that buy and sell it.

Laws; Laws can mean freedom. Abolishment, laws stating women's equal rights.. These meant freedom for those afflicted. On the other hand all the laws made possible by homeland security after and since 9/11 impede many personal freedoms.

All in all, one is free to pursue life within and as stated by the laws of one's country. All that's to debate really is the definition of free.. God given freedom versus constitutional freedom.

Do we have the freedom to try and change the laws we don't agree with? That's an interesting one.. Take cannabis for example. If the majority is all for it, why is it against the law?

On the one hand, the laws that are there are there because we agree'd to (some) of them. And in doing so put stipulations on our own freedom. On the other hand we're not really given the freedom to change those laws as we evolve (and become more tolerant) socially and societally.

 

It is all relative, in let's say to a country that limits one child per couple or something.
I am free enough here....I just do not like big brother watching every move all of the time....not that I have anything to ever hide.

 

America is not a free country. It merely claims to be free and some people believe it, which is the most dangerous part of it not being free. Anyone with a basic understanding of the money system alone knows they're not free. Look up debt slavery.

 

It's that way of thinking that is used to justify our enslavement. Way to go.

 

I try to stay away from political threads but I'll give this topic a stab.

It's an illusion. If you're born here, you get a birth certificate and a social security number. Those are basically your personal deed of ownership and your serial number. They will be used to track you and keep records on you for the rest of your life.

If you're born here, you will basically stay here for the rest of your life unless you have a passport issued to you. That passport is permission from your owner to leave and it will then track you abroad. Don't take my word for it. Just try to leave without a passport. You aren't going anywhere.

Next....if you live here, you might think you have the right to own things. Sure, you can have things like clothes, household items, etc. You can even buy a car and a house. But even if you buy those items outright in cash, you will never be able to completely own them and use them for free. No, no, no....not without paying the piper. You can't even make a legal purchase without paying extra to do so (sales tax) Don't pay property taxes? Lose your property. Want to drive the car you own? Not without paying to license it and even then, you can't legally drive it unless you've also paid to license yourself. So you can have a car and not drive it at all if you aren't willing to pay but in a lot of areas you aren't allowed to let it be parked for too long in one spot. You can always park it in your garage as long as you keep paying those property taxes in order to "own" a house. Maybe you rent your place. That's ok and it's a good thing because more and more it's becoming illegal to not have a place to live. Those people aren't even free to sit on a park bench without committing a crime.

The land of the free....except for nothing is free...including the people.

 

Excellent post!

 

If you want to take advantage of things that were created by society for the good of society, you also need to respect the rules and regulations that helped that society produce those things. Centralized government goes hand in hand with innovation, technology, industry, development... decentralization tends to slow progress down to a crawl like after the Fall of Rome. You need a passport to get on an airplane, but you also need an airplane to visit other countries. You need money to buy a boat because the people who make the boats belong to society and enjoy its protections and rewards.

I would agree that society is spreading and it's pretty much impossible to just wander off and do your own thing without owning property... but you can't just have people doing whatever they want wherever they want or you'd end up with shit and garbage everywhere, species going extinct, and people would fight over the best spots.

And finally, freedom isn't something you can measure in comparison to some fantasy realm where everyone always does whatever they want with zero negative consequences... you need to compare your society to other societies around the world.

Compared to North Korea, China, parts of Eastern Europe, most of Southeast Asia, the Middle East, parts of South America, Latin America, Cuba, etc... I would say the US is very very very free... and to be honest, I can't immediately think of another country that has more freedom. Maybe Greenland... but I would say the most free place in the world is Antarctica or somewhere in Northern Canada where most people would never live or visit.

 

Wishing it is not needed does not make it so. What do you mean with 'way to go'? Are you implying that just because I happen to see this fact (we seem not to thrive without rules in populated areas) I'm to blame that others abuse this way of thinking?

 

Freedom is an illusion.

 

Thanks for the great comments, people. Does anyone know where the definition of freedom could be found in our constitution?

 

Who makes the determination as to what is for the good of society? Who makes the determination as to whether the rules and regulations of society are for the good of anything other than the preservation and furtherance of the state?

Don't we already have that?

The more people find it acceptable to compare the US with those countries and make excuses, the more the US becomes like those countries.

 

I don't understand how this is a response to my comment. Are you saying that people don't benefit at all from society? That the organized efforts of all the people in the US or elsewhere don't return anything of worth to the majority?

If you're getting most of the things that you want and are allowed to do everything that you want to do, does it really matter if you're not allowed to do things that you don't? Are you a slave just because you're not free to destroy things or have all of the things that other people have? I don't think so.

Well, you could always try just walking into a random house and saying 'this is mine now', but I'm pretty sure that the people who live there would get upset. The same goes for throwing trash on their lawn or taking a dump on their front porch. So I'm going to have to say no.

That's absurd. An apple doesn't magically turn into an orange because you observe that they look, taste and smell different. You're really reaching with that comment.

 

I'm not saying that nothing good comes from our society. Not saying that at all. In fact, an organized society is the only way we, as a species, can exist with the population we have. But there are different ways that a society can be structured and what we have right now simply doesn't benefit the majority of people the way it should imo.

In addition to what I posted on page 1.....the opposite of freedom must be slavery in some sense. How many ways are we slaves to the system? I posted a few ways already but what about our monetary system? The entire world seems to be in "debt". To who? The only people with enough money to loan to the entire world are the ones who have the power to create "money" out of thin air. A simple swipe of the keyboard. (And it isn't govt) But creating money isn't enough. The money must be introduced into the system. Giving it away doesn't create profit so it must be loaned into the system. So this is all bullshit....fictional numbers on a screen. Just pick a number....any number...and it's as true as the numbers we are told are true.

The people who create the money are the same ones largely responsible for how the money is spent (through various means.) We have almost no say whatsoever in how our govt operates. We're supposed to but we don't. If we really did...I'll ask you....which of us voted to be spied upon by our own govt who is supposed to work for us? None of us did and they did it anyway because they don't work for us. They don't give a fuck about us besides our capacity to prop the system up and keep it going. When I say "they" I am not referring to individuals trying to do the best job they can. I'm referring to the machine...collectively. Individuals try to do their best and overlook that which they don't think they can change. That's exactly how you become a cog in the wheel of the machine and you convince yourself that it's better for you to make at least a minimal change than for the next guy to make no improvement. So things stay the same.

So how does that make you a slave? Well, someone has to pay back all of this "debt" and it won't be those benefiting from the system the most because they don't pay taxes. We basically pay taxes to them. This isn't by accident. You, your children, grandchildren, etc will work for your entire lives and much of what you pay in taxes will be given away, in one manner or another, to the people who are the true parasites. You'll pay the same no matter what but it wouldn't seem so unfair if you actually got back what you paid for. But you don't. You don't get well funded schools, free health care, great infrastructure, successful poverty programs, universal housing, etc. Who would be against those things if we could "afford" them? None of us. What you get for what you're paying is more war, debt, corruption, poverty, division, nationalism, and more wealth for the wealthiest. That's what we are going into "debt" for and that's what make us slaves.

But we are not exceptional in this regard as Americans. It's world wide. How can that be? Because the same motherfuckers use the same tactics all over the world. The only effective way to change anything is to let the entire system collapse and start over. That will not happen anytime soon at this rate and that's why we will all be slaves. No matter how much we pay, we will never pay enough to get out of our "debt".

 

We're always free; no matter where we are or what are situation.
We always have the power to act however we feel to act.

We're never free; no matter where we are, or what are situation.
We can only act however we have the opportunity and reason to act.



Freedom is a completely relative term. As far as America being 'free'; it's a meaningless buzzword for patriots and wannabe emigrants from 'less free' countries.

America's laws are in many ways more free in many ways than Communist China or radically Islamic countries; but that doesn't necessarily mean it carries out those laws perfectly, or that there aren't other ways those countries are more free. A well-born politician might find China far less restrictive; a radical right sociopath might find Afghanistan less restrictive.

 

People ought to define what they mean by "free" before they respond.

 

Freedom, in its pure sense, is an illusion...I'll have to agree....We are slaves to feeding ourselves for one thing....That is just one example.....

 

That's not the best example, since it applies to all life on Earth. What about an example that applies to humans in America?

 

You have the floor. I am sure you can think of one.....Go for it!