Is “right” or “wrong” fixed?

When we say someone should know right from wrong, is it based on our view of it, or is there ever a fixed view of right and wrong?

I think that many of our laws come from objective ideas of right and wrong, or at least a majority of people might agree on that but I think there are some areas of right and wrong that are subjective.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

there is a logical definition, one that can be objectively and independently arrived at, that doesn't come from nor depend upon any one belief, but i believe at least inspires pretty much all of them,
and that is that good/right IS consideration and wrong/harm/'evil' IS aggressiveness, of which belligerence is a part.

i don't observe that there is any kind of an absolute linkage between laws and this kind, the only kind to me, of morality.
there are a lot of different concerns different people have that motivate creating laws.
what you end up with is people in power who may listen to reason or simply pull them out of someplace.
their power does come from a degree of acceptance, by at least a personal cadre, and tolerance by others.

but when you have dominance of aggressiveness, this is tyranny. nothing to do with ideologies used to justify it.
when you have serious and honest attempts to prevent or at least statistically reduce the dominance of aggressiveness,
then you have the beginnings of what i would consider civilization.

 

You have to consider why there are rights and wrongs.. what would and does happen if wrongs are taken over right..

They are all laws, be it legally or morally... But there are reasons for them..

Might be that some are old, but there are reasons for them..

Personally, I see the reason's..

 

When I was younger & much more idealistic I used to believe morality was objective....nowadays..nope, it's just a question of cultural conditioning and how many people happen to agree with your particular notion of right and wrong.

 

If I agree with everyone, does that mean you are all “right?”

 

Based on the law, does that mean that I am a wrongdoer every time that I park on a yellow line.?????
I am SUCH a naughty boy.

 

i saw the thread title and thought you were asking which was neutered.

 

Nope, they are both still broken.

 

You’re so silly! ^_^

But, that broken system still runs our lives. I think that we can all agree on what’s right, in terms of how to treat others but once religion for example enters into the equation, different versions of right might differ from mine.

 

Yep, so much is open to interpretation. I don't even think you have to add religion to the equation, a lot of people lack any sense of a moral compass these days.

 

Future Past

The self-evident truth requires no explanation,
For what comes around always goes around,
Righting every wrong for better or worse.
Which is why you can always run,
But, none ever manages to really hide,
Not from their own damned Truth!
Everywhere you go, there you are!
Me, myself, and I can agree upon that!
No matter how many might be in your head!
No matter how confused you are about anything,
Reality without dreams, is just someone's nightmare,
Whilst dreams without reality are someone else's fantasy!
Nor is it possible to hide from the Mother of All and Great Void,
Where the Greater Truth, is the only thing I know is that I know nothing,
For bereft faith in my own memories, dreams, and awareness I have none.
Whilst, the self-evident truth is Yogi Berra really knew how to play the game!
For what profit it a man if he should gain the world, but loses his soul?
Know thyself, for any truth that reflects the self-evident truth will always endure.
Know that your future determines your past, only after you embrace your journey,
Our feet all shape the paths we choose, as the way shapes how our path meanders.
Know there are many paths, one mountain, for all ascend the same stairway to Heaven,
Learn to embrace gentle laughter, to embrace your own beautiful words, and silence as golden.
Fill the air with your sparkling laughter, and the world will become a much more beautiful place.​

 

Different cultures have significant differences in what is seen as right or wrong. That's what really stands out to me. So in that sense, we differ in our values, our worldviews, our norms, mores, and folkways. One great example of this is how different societies view illegal drug use. Some places have really harsh punishments for illegal drug use, while others consider it less of a criminal justice issue and more of a public health concern.

 

I just think "right" is whatever lifts people up, makes them feel good about life. You can argue that it doesn't matter objectively, I suppose, but you could also say, objectively, that's all that right is.

Sometimes there's confusion, though. Like, if I dress like a clown some people will be happy and others terrified, so is that right or wrong? And further than that, some people would say just having a funny haircut is wrong and it makes them feel bad. So dealing with the wide array of human predispositions, it's impossible to do what is right all the time as I have defined it, but you have to be reasonable.

I do believe in absolute morality, though. Some things are just wrong. Harming a child is just wrong. But then there's some cultures where...I dunno...you have to firebrand a boy's ballsack before he's truly a man. That would hurt. But then if you don't, he gets made fun of and ostracized, and which hurts worse in the long run?

 

Excellent points! I think that is really the conundrum with it all. It would seem obvious that hurting a child, even if hurting the child is some convoluted cultural or religious ritual, but that would be my idea of right vs. wrong. But, my idea of right or wrong in that scenario seems more right than their right, if that makes sense.There are a lot of things that are cultural ''norms,'' and even laws, but that doesn't meant they are right. Slavery was never right, and is always wrong, but it was legal, once upon a time in American history. It's really scary to think that someone 200 years ago, thought that it was ''right'' to own other human beings, and treat them as property. But, eventually, someone else came along and thought that was wrong.

I'd have to say that an absolute right or wrong mainly hinges on if whatever it is that is right or wrong, marginalizes or adversely affects others.

 

I used to think that there were such things as fixed morals but after I stopped believing in a divine savior entity that controls everything I began to realize that it's all subjective & dependant on the reigning concepts of each era.

 

I think there is a higher order to the universe in which, at its upper echelon, everything functions harmoniously. As you descend not so much. We as humans try to ascend back to the living harmony everywhere, making up rules as we go along...some which take us higher and others that don't.

How is one to be at peace with themselves and therefore the world? People meditate to transcend to that harmonious plane of existence. Otherwise you're left in frustration. It's like as soon as you untie one knot on one end you find another on the other end.

But yeah, I'm sure other civilizations throughout the galaxy have ascended higher on the totem pole, so to speak. What is the highest order but death, though, and do you even want to ascend that high, to perfect balance and harmony? It's almost like you need disorder, but you slowly have to ascend towards order. Or find some kind of balance. Humanity is going to realize this sooner or later, that perfect harmony and the land of the living don't go together at all. What happens when we reach that critical mass of enlightenment? Brutal barbarism? Like Aztecs sacrificing people to the gods and shit?

It's not the necessity of evil, per se, but dirtiness. If you get too close to Heaven...you're dead.

 

I'm sorry for the delay in responding to this, but this is a really insightful post. I think you're right, in a way. In many religions, striving for perfection and reaching for the heavens, is often the ''goal.'' Something I learned when i explored Zen Buddhism, is that nirvana is something to be found along the journey. They journey actually IS zen. It's not an end destination, like I had once thought, when I was a bit more clueless about Buddhism. There are different ways to perceive Buddhism certainly, but this is what I've learned from it.

 

Very interesting thread to come on the heels of this discussion last weekend between Atheist Sam Harris and Jewish Ben Shapiro, who delve into the topic of morality for the bulk of this exchange.

 

I like that these two guys go outside of the mainstream media's rhetoric and narratives, and talk about things that really, a lot of people think about but don't feel comfortable talking about. I like how they get into identity politics, and how we as a culture, tend to judge people's answers to various questions, based on their gender, race, religion, etc. Like is this person worth listening to, (based on our own biases) before I've even heard what they have to say? Let's just be ''intellectually honest,'' and stop smearing each other. Thanks for posting this.

 

Right and wrong is like being told to use your common sense. It's a made up sentiment aimed at grouping everybody together as a whole to hold the same views, doctrines, beliefs, ideals and so on. It's basically nonsense. Since we can all agree that all of us have different opinions on all this subject and matter, we can all agree we are all different individuals which makes your common sense and right or wrong different from mine, and mine is different from another person and so on.