All the money spent all the lives lost are we closer to a perfect world? Are private contractors wealthier? What was the point? Most of you still don't even know who Chalabi was or is and probably don't care. but many lives were lost because of people like him. He dresses in his Armani suits, his family didn't die or were in any danger, he holds his government position. Tony Blair, Ahmed Chalabi and others lied to us, yet they hold positions of power even today. http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/05/b839811_ct48467.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/coleen-rowley/ahmed-chalabi-proves-ther_b_42181.html http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/chalabi
Was that the point or was it mooted that a perfect world would occur? Sure are... How long have you got? To me it has always been about democracy.
the religious fanatics want to reclaim the lands of abraham - well the lands that abraham lived in and travelled through. he didn't own anything, he was a nomad for quite some time. abraham was an iraqi, the religious fanatics want to takeover these lands. its all about baby steps.
Let me put it like this...as an American...I would of felt safer walking around in Iraq prior to him invading Kuwait..(when our two nations were at peace)...than I would walking around there today... Saddam kinda ruled from a Secular throne... In the future, Iraq will be ruled from a religious throne... I felt safer with Saddam in power than whomever will take his place...
invading a country, killing thousands of people, leading the country into civil war, only to press a political system on them for which there is absolutely no base and which they dont want? and you seriously think that has helped "democracy" in any way? or those peoples fiew on democracy and the US? zomg!
Actually for better or worse Iraq did have a democratic parliamentary election once again just 2 months ago with higher turnout then the US. They are officially more democratic than America now. Whether the war was just or not really no longer matters 7 years later except for in the courts. The fact there's a democratic Iraq in the middle east does have implications for a region usually lacking in democracy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehHkH3xDiaU&feature=related"]YouTube- iraq children future terrorists or allies
you can not simply install a new political system in a country at your own judgement. especially if the country has absolutely NO experience and history of democracy and when its culture is so different to the western culture. well, however, the US have been known to have a very simple and US- centered fiew on the world, so no one is really suprised. how democratic is a political system with 2 partys? a system where someone with LESS votes than the other canditate can become president? lets start here.
I kinda sorta see what your saying...like if the Hells Angels were democratic, would that make them a better orginization? Or if the Mexican mafia were democratic, would that make them better? I sorta see your point...I think...
kinda. democracy .... the word itself dictates the rules for this political system. rulership of the people.... meaning, the country is ruled by the people living in it. this can only work und some basic conditions: 1. the people must want to have a democracy, 2. they must identify themselves with their country, 3. their culture and way of living must be in line with a democratic system to let it work, 4. their self conciousnes, the way they think and fiew things must somehow be compatible with democracy, 5. they ALL need to be able to read, and a few more minor points. in europe, as example, after WW1 Germany and Austria developed democratic systems. those countries had decades of experience with democratic elements (parliaments and partys under the monarchs) on top of that they were countries were the "Aufklärung" (i am sorry, i dont know which word you english ppl use of that) prospered and influenced society since the 1780s. and STILL, after WW1, those countries faced massive problems because the people didnt identify themselves with democracy, which led in both countries to dictatorships. an in iraqu the situation is not nearly as favourable as in europe after WW1...
Iraq has actually been having elections for decades, they've just normally been dominated by one party/candidate. Please find me the place in the world that doesn't want democracy of some form. Democracy/voting isn't some western idea. And actually anyone with a basic sense of economics can tell you Iraq overall is better than Weimar Germany or most countries period during the great depression.
that may be true to some extend, but democracy like we have it is clearly western - and thats exactly what the US are exporting. and to be true: everyone in the world has the right do decide himself what political system he has. introducing a political system gunpoint wont do much good in the long run. and the only reason i can imagine you saying that is that you automatically assume that we, the western world, know best whats good for people all over the world. this eurocentristic fiew is one of the major problems since the begin of imperialism. which should you give one hell of a headache in the first place. people in iraq suffering hunger and starvation for decades and suddenly they have a good economy? the german reich was the most adanced country of the world at the beginning of WW I (according to british, US and french papers of that time). and still, after the war they had really big problems. and iraq, which has suffered for decades because they couldnt sell their main product - oil - suddenly becomes an economic wonder? stop and ask yourself HOW that can be... additionally you shuold know damn well that "economics" dont say anything about what a living the majority of the people in this country have. the US supporting pet democracies is not much different from the US supporting pet dictatorships during the cold war.
the aim of the war on iraq was using american money and time clearing the land for greater israel. the old testament declares these lands to be "israel". go and read it, you can find it in genesis. the land clearing can happen when the peoples of these lands are dead. rather like mein kampf everything you need to know can be found in this political manifesto. for us it means more taxes as to pay for these wars, it might take a few centuries because it will take time to kill a few billion people as a sacrifice to jehovah. the best thing you can do as an individual is to restrict the money you give to organisations and individuals that wish this to all come true. for britain its too late despite the elections (where they were turning people away from voting) the war will continue.
