Inside Cuba

Discussion in 'Communism' started by Motion, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    Interesting video on those trying to bring changes to Cuba."]Cuba: change from within | euronews, reporter - YouTube
  2. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    When it's all said and done in order for Cuba to change aren't the Castros going to have to allow for presidental elections allowing the Cuban people to vote for new leadership? Basically I don't see much changing there if the Cuban people aren't allowed to change the people running the country. When you aren't allowed to vote for a change in leadership in a country then not much will change. These Cubans are going to have to overthrow the Castros at some point.
  3. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    Think about what you're saying, and how utterly stupid it is.

    Cuba is stable. That's more than you can say for other places that had the same central/south american revolutionary problems, the US intervened in the rest, and they had massive dirty wars, and torture, and are still dangerous. Cuba would be a happy normal country if the US had not had an embargo to keep the republicans in florida happy.

    The guys are both more than four times my age. They're not going to be around forever. The best path for cuba is to set up for fair elections at the end of the castro reign, whenever and however that is. "overthrow" is not a good idea, at this point.

    Hell, "overthrow" would negate the castro deal with the CIA not to assassinate their leaders (and who knows, maybe the CIA has gotten better at assassinations since the last 28 times they tried it on Fidel) and even if it was a pretty popular, smooth transition, they could easily be knocked over for the (nasty) guys who want to go take back their grandfather's plantations. It could be the ruin of their country.

    So: that's totally fucking stupid.

    Now I'll watch the video.
  4. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    Well according to a Cuban dissidant blogger it's more that it would be a little more complicated for Cubans to have an Arab Spring like uprising for several reasons.

    such as:

  5. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    How "stable" can a dictatorship be considered?

    Why does Cuba appear stable? Isn't it mainly stable because the Castro gov't is keeping folks in check(with censorship,imprisoning journalist and dissidants)?

    I think you have to take these things into account with Cuba's apperance of "stability".
  6. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Yeah I actually went to school with guys who were imprisoned for years because of their views.
  7. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    I think you don't understand the alternative, and what happened in the places where the US succeeded in knocking over the local governments. Cuba survived it.

    I already explained why a simple overthrow would subjugate cuba to the US again, and I don't know how old you think the castros will make it, but they're up against a brick wall of time. They would already have much softer power if it was not for the US keeping them in power with our embargo.

    If you want what's good for cuba, we should be able to trade and travel freely there. It's fucking simple.

    Stable does not mean happy and rich and free-market-libertarian-capitalist. Stable means stable. Cuba is stable. Cuba has excellent medical care and schooling, cuba does not wage dirty wars or genocides, cuba jails their political dissidents because they can still get away with it because of the US embargo.
  8. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    How is it being determined that Cuba has excellent medical care? Are independent medical organizations allowed to go into Cuba to observe and talk to medical wokers free from government interference?
  9. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

    Fidel is 86, Raul is 81. How old are you?
  10. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

    It's pretty well accepted internationally that Cuba has a great medical system. They send hundreds of doctors and nurses to other Latin American countries to try and help (or they trade them for oil, like with Venezuela).

    A couple of quick quotes pulled from Wikipedia:

    I used to be a fan of Fidel Castro, but the more I research about him, the more I think that he's lost his way. There are alternatives, look at Chavez in Venezuela - he has won countless fair elections and was even re-instated after a US backed coup because the people actually like him. Castro could have made these changes in Cuba, he could have let the people choose him instead of carrying on this stupid charade of democracy where he pretends that he has (had, now, I suppose) no power but is clearly in charge.
  11. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    I'm still curious to know how much of the info we get on the Cuban health care system is being controlled and censored by the gov't?

    Also Cuba does have a low infant mortality rate but Cuba also has the highest abortion rate in Latin America. You have to wonder how much all those abortions are keeping infant mortality down? Many potentially problem births are probably being aborted.

    I don't view Chavez as a better alternative. He was popular because he practiced "santa clause" socialism. Also his policies lead to food shortages and his cheap gas prices lead to rampant gas smuggling.
  12. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

  13. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

    That's okay with me.

    He managed to significantly reduce poverty levels in Venezuela as well.

    What we think of him doesn't matter though, because the people of Venezuela apparently thought highly enough of him to keep him in office for that long.
  14. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

  15. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

    Raul seems understand that he is going to have to make some changes in order for Cuba to succeed. It would be ideal if, before he dies, he were to transition the country to a truly democratic socialist nation that allows for free enterprise. Otherwise I fear what would happen if he dies in power - I don't know that the Cuban people would support a non-Castro dictator. With Castro they can always reminicse about the revolution, with someone else, I think they might revolt.

    But, I'm a Canadian and have only been to Cuba a couple of times (and spent most of my time in a resort most likely owned by a foreign corporation), so I really have no idea.
  16. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    It's about cuba, and is from miami.

    You think I'm stupid enough to click that, much less take anything it says seriously?

    Those reds took my grandaddy's sugar plantation, and gave the land to all his serfs, I want it back :willy_nilly:
  17. jmt

    jmt Ezekiel 25:17

    oh yes because when we removed the saddam dictatorship Iraqs doing a low more stable now right???

    Castro is a dirt bag but at the same times his insanely genius lawyer. Cuba has one of the world leading medical systems what more can you ask in a third world country??? castro has forced so much education on its people that its rare that here in miami you meet one thats not educated through a university so it show that castro is developing a pretty well educated society.

    I live in miami and though am not cuban I have a very well understanding of cuban culture. shit I have can speak a clean cuban spanish. and I can tell you sometimes you might need that sort of leadership. but then again theirs nothing like freedom of speech and other human rights.
  18. Motion

    Motion Senior Member

    Interesting interview with Cuban-American actor Andy Garcia.

  19. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    Strawman is strawman.

    I don't think any of us are thinking or arguing that cuba is any sort of paradise. We're simply being pragmatic. Cuba has problems, but knocking down something that's sort of working and that can be saved, and risking totally unknowable disaster, is just stupid.
  20. Motion

    Motion Senior Member


    I just thought it was an interesting interview with Andy Garcia. He clears up some myths and misconceptions about the revolution,life under Castro and the effects of the embargo.

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