Important Questions for atheists

How do atheists feel when people say, every single day, "God Bless America, God Bless America, God Bless America, God Bless America" ??

If atheists do not like religion and they believe God is non-existent, then why do they waste their time entering into discussions about God(s) and religion? If I was a true non-believer and if I was firmly decided that God is a non-reality, I wouldn't waste my resources (time, attention, energy.. ).

 

I'm atheistish. Meaning I have my own beliefs about it. I typically don't get into discussions with people about it until they try to shove their religion down my throat. I honestly have no problem with anyone believing in god or saying "God Bless". That is their right just as much as it is for me to say I don't believe. I don't put anyone down for their beliefs. I do wish some people would give me the same respect though.

I have worked very closely with another woman for about 12 years. She is hardcore catholic. When we first started working together we had a discussion about it. I told her "I won't try to change your mind if you don't try to change mine". We have never had a problem. We respect each others views. She can talk to others about it and I have no problem overhearing it. To each their own.

 

You're rare, compared to the majority of atheists I've encountered over the years. When I saw your name I thought, that's strange. I don't think I've ever seen her in any of these threads. And that's quite what I would expect from a true atheist. I'd expect them to never, or rarely, participate in any discussion at all.

If people truly, truly believed there was no God .. why on Earth waste their minds, their attention, their energy and their time? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Ask yourself why you would make a thread discussing atheism and you may find part of the answer. This particular forum is Philosophy and Religion. God and religion happens to be some of the most discussed subjects among many philosophers, some of whom are atheists.

I rarely if ever post in the Christianity or any of the other Religion specific forums but I enjoy discussing it in this forum.

I don't hear "God Bless America" everyday, so that's not really much concern with me and seems more overtly patriotic to me than religious. I don't have any problems if religion works for people but as Rubysoho mentioned it is annoying when they shove religion down your throat.

 

I didn't want to post in the Agnosticism and Atheism forum because to me, it is a religious issue .. not an atheist issue. Any religious forum I've participated in never lacks an abundant presence of atheists. In that regard, I don't think atheists who willingly participate in discussions can claim that religion is being shoved down their throat.

"God Bless America", yes it does sometimes have a patriotic feel. It's just a question I've been wanting to ask for a while now.

 

It's when religious doctrine creeps into public policy...why for instance do some states still have silly laws prohibiting package liquor sales on sunday? Why should non-religious folks be made to follow a law designed basically to keep from offending some fictional religious holy day?

 

I don't think Ruby is abnormal at all. In fact, she is probably exactly what most of us are like but most religious people just seem to think they can define us on their own terms to back up their own bullshit arguments. I think most of us are willing to play nice but some of us don't feel obligated to do so because of what we hear from the other side. Why should we let them define the debate? They believe in invisible people.

 

I think it's offensive to say "fictional religious holy day". It fans the flames (just part of human nature, I know .. but still). Aside of laws about liquor, it is an undeniable fact that the world slows down (at least, in the United States it does) on Sunday.

Laws and rules for governing society, culture, human behavior, etc. ...

Whether it comes from state or religion, there are always going to be laws, rules, policies and regulations. Even outside of state and religion (for example, this website) there are guidelines. That's a form of governance.

People don't like seat belt laws either so I wonder if it's really an authority issue, regardless of state or religion.

 

I don't think she's abnormal either. But she is rare, in my experience, compared to the majority of people I've encountered over the years.

 

I don't think she's rare at all. The vast majority of people I know aren't much different than her. And honestly...most of us aren't all that vocal because we are logical and I think many of us just assume that most people know 25+25=50 and we don't need much of a debate. The problem comes when a loud minority tries to say that 25+25=something other than 50 and they expect all of us to accept their point of view on the idea of religious freedom. Well....it's not really religious freedom....it's called math and if your god can't do math than I just can't get on that bus.

 

Oh I can see I'm wasting my words with you. bye bye

 

It seems like you're defending Ruby from something, but I don't know what or why.

 

I didn't offend you, Gongshaman. I didn't offer you a rude or bad attitude.


"Attitude is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than what people do or say.
It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill.”~ W.C. Fields

 

There may be at least three reasons: First, some atheists not only do not believe in God themselves, but think belief in God has harmful effects on society and other people. They may consider it a duty to provide information and arguments that help others who are not atheists at least to have the opportunity to resist theistic influences from the dominant society. Second, atheists, like the rest of us, like to exchange ideas with like-minded people, to avoid feelings of isolation. A classic experiment in social psychology, the Asch experiment, shows the effects of group pressure on a person's perceptions of reality. If a subject is alone, even if (s)he is right, there is a strong tendency to accept the consensus view, even if it seems to be dead wrong. The addition of just one person who agrees with the subject dramatically counteracts this effect. Third, atheists may find allies in challenging specific laws or practices that discriminate against them or are religious based. This country has made progress in giving substance to First Amendment protections against establishment of religion, thanks to lawsuits brought by atheists and others adversely affected by such laws. But there are still battles to be fought. In my state, the legislature's favorite vote-getting idea for public policy is to authorize posting of the Ten Commandments on public property. At present, there is a court case challenging the effort to build a monument to the Ten Commandments on the grounds of the state capitol. (If that fails, a group of Satanists are planning to build a monument to Satan right next to it!) Beyond that, there's lots of legislation that incorporates religious values at the expense of various minorities. Gay rights is an obvious example. In my state, gays aren't allowed to marry or adopt children. It's obvious to me that the reasons stem from traditional Judeo-Christian morality. There may be other reasons, but I'm a Christian and will defer to the atheists in coming up with them.

 

Wiz isn't defending me from anything. He just understands my views on this. Like I said in my post, it's not worth my time to argue about it. I'll never change anyone's mind so its not worth my energy. They will also never change my mind. I play nice until I'm forced not to. I have no problem defending my own beliefs if I feel pressured to do so. But to just shove my views down someone's throat??? Not my thing. In my experience that is more of a Christian thing to do. I'm not lumping all Christians together. I know they don't all do that but in my experience many of the ones I know have all drank the same crazy kool aid and I'm not interested in that.

Religion is like a penis. It's ok to have one and its ok to be proud of it but when you wave it in my face, we're going to have a problem.

 

I did get the feel that you were being defended but, moving right along ..

I don't think religion is like a penis but I do agree that public sexuality being waved in people's faces (and shoved down people's throats) is a problem. Email spam and junk folders are an example. I don't think people can say their email inboxes are slammed with religious material.

I don't know about crazy kool aid but I do hear and read that very often in political discussions. I don't even know what it's supposed to mean. I personally can't stand the public script.

You're still very much not the sort of atheist I'm talking about.

 

I don't consider myself atheist. I guess I consider myself agnostic. I believe anything possible- maybe there is a god/higher power, maybe there are god(s), maybe we our own god, maybe there is nothing at all, etc.. I flip flop between these ideas. Who knows what is true. Maybe one of these ideas is true, maybe none are.

I really don't care when I hear people say 'god bless america'..they have the right to freedom of speech, just like I do. I'm not offended by this.

I think guerillabedlam made a really good point saying "God and religion happens to be some of the most discussed subjects among many philosophers, some of whom are atheists." I agree. People find god and religion interesting subjects to discuss and debate. I know I do. On the other hand, it seems many religious people aren't open for discussion, they just want to force feed their own agenda.

 

I don't know if I can accept atheists-as-saviors, so to speak, as a rational motivation for attacking religion(s) and God the way they do (and religious people). To me, it is like an actual war (with intermittent flares). But then, this is the internet and that has a lot to do with some things. There are no atheists in my neighborhood protesting in front of the 5 Churches here. There are no signs posted, no agendas, no movements.

satan is a very big part of it all. I almost wish people would build a monument. satan isn't the creator of the Universe, or Humanity, but satan is quite very real. There are some people who believe that satan is the one true God. They're not correct but I'm aware of their belief.

Gay marriage. My response is: gay divorce. I see it no differently from heterosexual marriage (50% divorce rate). I've heard *many* people attack heterosexual marriage, saying that "only fools get married" (which is faithlessness) and "it's an unnatural social construct meant to control people". If that were true, the very same thing applies to gay marriage. I think it's all fucked up anyway. But, whatever.

 

My point is, why discuss something that somebody insists is not real and does not exist? It makes no sense. There's plenty to discuss in philosophy, unless of course .. God is inescapable and they simply cannot ever avoid having the discussions.

 

I guess I can't really answer then since I'm not atheist. I would say atheists can still discuss the concept of god though.