If you think you are free

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Joshua Van, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
    Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

    I have been to 3rd world countries. One thing I noticed right away was more freedom. For example if you have something with wheels and motor you use it to get around, they don't have the money to stalk the public over stickers and papers and licences.

    Wile Mexico is 2nd world but I remember the rental guy noticing my driver licence was expired and I got all sad thinking that's it no rental car, he said leave that in the hotel and just bring your passport when your out driving. Ran my visa card and gave me the keys.

    I Murica they are always up your ass, that would never happen. United states of Murica always up our asses.

    The first world. German highways, got a fast car, GO fast ! no one up your ass about it.

    Never been to Germany but I was in Austria for an overnight stop over in this hotel, I needed a drink, thought I would have to go to town so I asked at the desk where can I get a drink.

    She points to the "soda" machine that was full of beer. No one up my ass like "murica" show me that ID the beer was in a vending machine.

    Eastern Europe, former USSR went there and those people can party OMG they party, money is tight but again not up your ass authority like "murica"'

    Caribbean islands, that same thing. New years, rolls of fat firecrackers for sale not those little mini ones for sale in US. That was fun new years in the Caribbean .

    Murica, some states cool other fireworks possession they arrest you.

    I have been around haven't made it south of equator yet to see toilet water flush in reverse but I have traveled.

    My problem everything bagel is that I have traveled and from what I have seen only in America "murica" are they up your ass all the time.

    We are the incarceration nation. Up everyones ass over the little stuff. "zero tolerance" they can just F off already.

    They are not the "good guys" anymore.

    Selling lemonade without permit, up your ass about it, grass to tall Murica they are up your ass about it, Murica the incarceration nation.

    Yes there are worse places then murica , but that's irrelevant.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
    Joshua Van likes this.
  2. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    United States of Enema
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  3. I don't give a F about their "effective regulatory program" too bad if its difficult.

    I don't give a F about the semantics of the crooked courts.

    For 243 years we did just fine without a Gestapo doing home invasions for "inspections".

    They want to violate my home they are going to have to use state violence and smash down the door.

    Wile this may appear as a low IQ response its really not. The smart thing is to see through their bullshit.

    I don't want "regulation" to protect public health and the environment. - Invented by unelected bureaucrats.

    We have criminal law to protect public health and the environment. - Criminal law is voted on by the legislature.

    More and more they play that game "its not a right its a privilege" its not a law its a "regulation" so no democratic vote just bureaucrat dictators. NO.

    Enough of these people.

    "administrative search warrant does not require individualized suspicion of a code violation."


    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Administrative search warrant = No probable cause. Violation of the bill of rights.

    F them. Traitors

    Shit I used to come to this website to chill out, now I am all pissed off. Politics !!
    Joshua Van likes this.
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Thanks for ventilating.
    Joshua Van likes this.
  5. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I understand what you say but the problem is department regulations (officially called rule promulgation) are written by a legislative body and signed into law by the executive branch. The way to fix things is to get our representatives to write new laws. That's unlikely to work in America now that we have Republicans and Democrats at ideological war. They act in Bipolar ways which bring drastic changes with each election. Republicans want personal and business freedom while they stomp on poor people and keep the poor people poor with At Will Employment Laws. The Democrats want to regulate the Republican Rich so the poor stand a fair chance to get out of poverty and have access to healthcare. These two extremes are not going to be resolved anytime soon as long as we have the Freedom Caucus with their monkey wrench in our government.
    granite45 likes this.
  6. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    We have em in Jersey too.
    stormountainman likes this.
  7. granite45

    granite45 Members

    Regulations have been put in place to bring some semblance of equity into our society. From EPA, to OSHA, they have provided protection from a myriad of abuses by corporations and the wealthy. Can anyone claim it was OK for Hookers to dump toxic waste in Love Canal and then sell the land to developers? Maybe you can’t remember the brown haze of Nitrogen compounds over well ventilated cities like Minneapolis, but I can. EPA stopped that. As Robert Reich has said, the game is rigged for those with wealth and in everyone for themselves there is no protection for most people. There actually is a community interest that needs to be at the table.
    My state is at ground zero For the Covid19 virus and local authorities are doing everything possible to contain it...in the face of insane pronouncements by the President and his lackeys. Legislative oversight is important but is impossible for legislators to personally manage all the implementation details in a complex society. It would be nice if the influence of wealth was not a factor in our congress but Justice Roberts made sure that wouldn’t take place.
  8. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Nah--lets just have chaos. No regulations, no laws, no cops, no interference in mans natural behavior and desires. Fuckinay--that'll work, given the benevolent nature of humans.
  9. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I remember Jersey fifty years ago. It was almost heavy on earth back then. All the towns on the Atlantic coast south of Freehold were just wonderful.
  10. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    Yes they are. There is a much stricter safety code for the car vs. America and taxes pay for the roads. Fans of cars often prefer the American system. We have a speed limit but the nanny state and taxes are less.To drive as fast as you want on the Autobahn is an investment you pay to big government.There is a speed limit in towns too.
    The American highway is not built for autobahn speeds. I'd like to drive that fast too but we would need to redesign our roads.

    The countries in your other examples don't have the funding to have infrastructure. In a true 3rd world country few if any would have a car maybe a motorcycle. Those still need a license in the US and Europe. I would pick there over a 3rd world country. Sometimes government is good.
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  11. ZenKarma

    ZenKarma Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

    I have to totally agree. America is NOT the land of the free, sorry. If you can't pay, you don't exist.

    The United States is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy and everyone seems to be confused about that definition.
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  12. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    I think people misconstrue the term freedom for the definition they can do anything they want with zero repercussions.
    WritersPanic, Okiefreak and Bilby like this.
  13. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    It's hard to discuss freedom in the abstract. Freedom from what or whom to do what? When you say "If you can't pay, you don't exist" you're concerned about a different aspect of freedom than many libertarians who think government regulations are encroaching on the rights of corporations to treat their workers as they see fit. They tend to see freedom as about freedom from government interference, and can't apply to encroachments on freedom by private corporations. Where I live, there are some free spirits who think it's unreasonable to expect them to observe the speed limit in a neighborhood where there are old folks and small children, and who let their dogs run loose and poop in their neighbors' yard without picking it up, despite city ordinances against this. We used to have a dude who posted a lot on threads dealing with guns. He took the position that any country that restricted gun rights was unfree--Australia and new Zealand being the worst of all.

    Can you think of a short list of countries which you think are "freer" than ours, and in which people would prefer to live? Right now, the U.S. seems to be freer than Italy, France, and Spain that have their people under lock down--for good reason--although we seem to be getting there. I'd gladly accept temporary shelter in place restrictions to do my part in combating COVID-19. Several outfits have come up with rankings of countries in terms of freedom:
    the Cato Institute's Human Freedom index; Freedom in the World, a Freedom House venture with an American perspective; the World Index of Moral Freedom, based in Spain; and the Wall Street Journal/Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom. These do show other countries ahead of the U.S.: New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada & Australia for overall freedom (U.S. 14th) and economic freedom (U.S. 12th); the Netherlands and Canada for moral freedom (U.S. 10th), out of 160 some nations. Yet
    That's understandable. Both are complex concepts. Democracy has been defined as government "of the people, by the people, for the people"--all of the above, some of the above: demos (the people), kratos (rule). The U.S. tends to view it in institutional terms: free elections. Communist countries like China and Cuba disparage this as "bourgeois formalism", preferring to define their "people's governments" in terms of the perceived general will, as defined by the vanguard of the proletariat. It's commonly understood to include the principle of majority rule.. You're correct that the Founding Fathers didn't have a high regard for it--associating it with Athenian direct democracy which they thought of as essentially mob rule. They preferred instead the Roman model of republic, by which they meant a system in which the major social categories--plebians and patricians--would be represented and their interests protected. A common definition of republic is "representative democracy". Instead of voting directly on policy issues, people would elect representatives to Congress to vote on these and hold them accountable in elections. It's more complicated than that--all those checks and balances designed to protect the majority from the minority and vice versa. Over time, the concept of democracy gained popularity and crept into the republican framework. Your emphasis on ours being a republic, not a democracy, surprised me, since that's a concept associated with the John Birch Society and other fringe groups of the radical right, which I doubt you belong to. Actually, we're very much both: a democratic republic. Whether or not the Founders would have approved is debatable and irrelevant.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  14. Bilby

    Bilby Freerangertarian Staff Member

    There is something to be said for a bureaucratic governments.France and Japan are two good examples. Both countries are civilized places to live in.
    Joshua Van likes this.
  15. [​IMG]

    I was doing 110 Mph on roads like this pretty comfortably when I drove across the US . Pushed it to 135 for a minute to lose the guy behind me but that was more stressful then worth the making better time. Tires were new and rated for those speeds but 100 to 110 was the top I was good with.

    I read an article once that said we should ditch the 1001 different tickets they can write and just have one, reckless driving.

    Going 100 mph on wide open road with no other cars around not reckless, at night or in the rain with other cars around totally different.

    I so want to forget current events but I wonder how the liberty movement will be effected by the darn virus or once its over.

    I think alot of people are going to wake up to the fact that the rat race life of wake the kids off to school, work work work... Kinda sucked.

    Tough time right now but we kind of got some of the right to be left alone back.

    The virus, I hate this crap.
    WritersPanic and Joshua Van like this.
  16. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    We got the right to be made to be left alone back!
  17. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    In Wyoming the speed limit is 85, in most western states it is 75. In a couple of highways in Texas it is 90. Montana used to be just "Reasonable & Prudent" but they changed it to a split limit for cars and big trucks.
    Joshua Van likes this.
  18. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I love you Zen but A Republican form of government is one style of Democracy. Democracy means rule by the people, meaning people vote directly on all issues. A Republican form of government means people vote to elect representatives and senators who then vote on the little matters which would consume too much time by way of direct Democratic votes.
  19. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Rigid Staff Member

    I know exactly what you mean. I did a job in Rockingham NC that had me working 4 ten hour days, so I drove a little over 6 hours each way. Then I got a really good deal on a restored V6 Fiero (mid-life crisis kind of thing) so I could get places a little faster. It made a 30 minute difference right away (I had been driving a small pickup).

    One morning around 2AM I decided to open it up to see just how much time I could shave off. The speedometer only went to 85, so I had to use mile markers and a stopwatch (which I used for work, a beautiful mechanical type from the 60s). I got the car up to 140 mph with ease before I realized that even with a smooth road for that part of the trip, at that speed the road felt very rough and then I noticed aerodynamic crap I never experienced before.

    While I was accelerating, the car was firmly planted to the road and handled great. But if I let off to coast, the back end began to shimmy and float. Scared the hell out of me since it's basically a plastic car with a gas tank is between the seats. Even on an autobahn this car would be a death trap. I never went over 100 after that and and happily sold it in West Virginia a year later.

    An interesting aspect of wrapping the speedometer needle around was that when it passed the zero point, it began to spin around the dial. Weird.
  20. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

    In Washington and Oregon the freeway speed limit is 65mph for cars and 55 for freight trucks.

    Nobody ever obeys the speed limits there though.

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