If it ain't Dutch... it's racist!

we've had a similar post to this: cf: do any of you live in amsterdam??
also the dutch have been opposed to immigration for a while, Pim fortuyn adopted the slogan 'the netherlands is full'. I aggree with immigration, but i dont think opposition to it should be deemed racist. the netherlands is a teeny weeny place, its only the size of wales, and i think that there is the equivalent to the whole population of ireland living in amsterdam. thats dense!

 

I have been saying the very same thing around here for months. I'm afraid you won't won't mind much 'tolerance' around these boards for your views.

 

It is exactly the other way round. If you are proud to be Dutch then you are a racist in this country.

 

Oh, shit! Sorry Velvet, I edited instead of quoted your post! mea culpa. (Damn that's the second or third time I've done that now)

I did delete part but that was not intentional. I tried to go back to find the original, but it's gone...

So the quotes are velvet, the replies mine. please forgive. At least I retained most of your post.

-Skip

You & O. are exceptions, as I'm already well aware. You shouldn't be taking this personally, and that fact that you do, shows you are infected with nationalism at some level.

Spoiled, moi? lol!

You think Holland is the ONLY country I think is screwed up? And yes, those who travel and LIVE extended periods in various foreign countries do have a unique perspective, one that deserves respect. Especially if you happen to be a qualified sociologist (like myself).

I'm pretty tired too of people ragging on expats. We are people who explore all a society has to offer, yet maintain our freedom of movement. We communicate and share our experiences almost daily and get to hear a lot from both other expats and locals. We have widened our experience in ways that those who only take two week vacations can never understand.

When I hear people claim we are spoiled, I know it's just jealously behind the sentiment. Yes we are spoiled by freedom, but we do pay our dues. When we live in another country, we don't have access to the things citizens take for granted. Like health care & social system. We don't have long term security. We don't pay the local prices for things like rent, instead we pay many times the going rate.

In fact if anyone is spoiled it is the generations of Dutch born after 1960s who never had to live thru the deprivations and horrors of WWII and it's aftermath. Your country has prospered, you have one of the biggest social safety nets in the world, little personal debt (tho this is changing thanks to the greedy young generation), free speech (this is changing too), and immense wealth. So watch who you call spoiled.

Yes, don't you get it? He felt it necessary to flee his country, just as many of us do. It's not a holiday we're on. It is a way to freedom. Draconian laws do more than lock up those who get caught. It creates a fear driven mindset that affects one psychologically to where you feel you must escape the prevailing consciousness because it is doing you harm.

And I thought you knew the reasons we host our server in Amsterdam was because it is MORE FREE than the US. But how long will that last, I wonder? So I do have a valid reason for concern, as should you.

It's fine for the Dutch to criticize their own country, but they sure don't like hearing it from outsiders.

Freedom is something expats learn to respect and seek. And believe me, when we see freedom disappearing right before our eyes, we are probably the first to raise the alarm. Everyone else is too busy living in fear and eyeing their neighbors suspiciously to be bothered about losing a few freedoms.

And those of us who study history also have seen these same pattern repeat over and over. And where they lead is a place YOU DON'T want to go!

 

i think these problems everybody are so worried about are evident in every single country. yes people are racist, yes it sucks. But lets not blame it all on the dutch. Take for example all the hate crimes going on in the UK at the moment.

 

Thats exactly what I wanted to say, and thank you cause that comming from a dutch person would probably taken as an excuse..

 

Don't you ever dare compare yourself to him. The only thing you do is run from country to country so you can find the place with the most lenient rules to live. The US didn't give you enough freedom, you tried Amsterdam, didn't like it as well, Spain, Thailand.. and you dare compare yourself to someone from West Africa who's only reason to leave his beloved country is because he is in danger of getting tortured/killed if he speaks up against the corruption of the son-dictatorship in his country? And you wonder why I call you spoiled....

 

as you could read in my first post here is that I never say it nor have any of my friends say it. I wouldn't even know what the Dutch equivalent is. Besides the fact that your first post his is a huge generalization, it's also loaded with drama. I wouldn't compare it to 'Deutschland uber alles' but with "once you go black, you don't go back". It sounds like a corny slogan from a travel company.. not the motto of a fascistic regime.

And yeah, when you talk about Dutch people below the age of 30, Dutch people born after 1960 I DO feel spoken to.. weird eh? But maybe I'll just have to get used to people making shamefull generalisation like they know everything.. try living here for 24+ years, then we'll talk.

And me jealous of you? Don't make me laugh. I could've left this country easily if I wanted to.. I could travel the world if I wanted to but I choose not to. Maybe I will in the future, but not now. There is enough here to keep me busy, enough different people and cultures to meet as soon as I step out of the door. It's soooo easy to dismiss critique as jealousy.. that way you don't need real arguments I guess.

 

i wish i could advise you on something so you don't come off as a mindless moron far removed from reality but it escapes me at the present moment.

 

Nice of you to at least acknowledge that.

Oh pleasse... don't go down Jasons road! It's not about that line.. it's about the fact that you make a lot of generalizations that are really hurtfull for people who are trying to change things here. Yes, people like me.. and trust me, it's hard enough without people dismissing it. Why don't you make a thread about all the various countermovements that are in this country? Convenient to ignore them eh?

Don't start talking about free speech, the way you run this website. I've seen complete profiles being deleted here just out of sheer revenge. I've been banned myself, by you, for asking (legit) questions about the banning policy. But hey, let me keep quiet before I risk being banned again or have all my posts deleted.

Again.. don't compare yourself to him. In Togo people get tortured and killed for speaking up against their government..

Again.. huge generalization.. 'the Dutch'.. I'm Dutch, Consolidated is Dutch and we're sure as hell don't close our eyes for what is going on 'round us. I'm not ignorant, nor apathic or afraid, so yes.. I AM going to speak up when you keep putting me down like that.

 

yes.. I could if I wanted to. I could get having gotten paid jobs instead of doing volunteerwork. I could start saving up money instead of spending it on others, like buying phonecards from an illegal immigrant in foreignersdetention. I could.. but I've chosen a different path. Traveling to me is luxury.. and one day I'd like to save up a bit of money to go meet friends in other countries. But for now I can't afford it, because of said reasons. Don't dare calling me spoiled because of me 'chosing' to spend my money otherwise.

 

God I love you

You have the great ability to lighten up a thread like this like no other.. hehe.. thanks mate.. needed that