Id cards

Senate just passed a bill that say americans must carry a new kind of id card that is machine readable with a bar code, im upset with this i dont even have a licence because i dont want any identification card.

 

yea... it's the national ID Card. Basically everyone must get it and rumor is that it'll control all actions. Credit, driving, even your library card so the government can see what books you check out.

 

Actually, what it is, is that the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity now has control over state driver's licensing, identification cards, and birth certificate policies. These new cards will require bio-metric identifiers and the BC's will be standardized and kept in a database. This is clearly unconstitutional, and another example of the corrupt federal government once again infringing upon the rights of states. Unfortunately, this will not prevent any acts of terrorism, but will facilitate increased control over those pesky US citizens. Who is the REAL enemy?

Welcome to the new world order. The transition is nearly complete. May vee see your pay-pahs?


"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" -Benjamin Franklin

 

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umm... isn't preventing identity theft a good thing? I think it would be a great idea if government still paid for it, but didn't make it mandatory.... I know I'd probably get it for convenience and so people can't steal info about me as easily.

 

Does anyone have a link to any news stories on this? I've only been able to find a very limited amount of information on it.

It sounds like one more government intrusion into the lives of citizens. Hopefully the Supreme Court will overturn this before it becomes law.

 

Ihmurria you like the idea of the department of homeland security knowing exactly what you buy, what you read, and pretty much knowing everything about you? I know i dont.

 

I'll protect my own identity thank you very much. I would rather risk another me running around then give the federal gov't more power. What kind of republican takes away power from the states to give to the federal gov't anyways?

 

I don't see how this would prevent identity theft...if anything, it would probably make identity theft even EASIER, because all of your electronic information would be located on a single card.

 

That is why it will have biometric information..the key diffrence between this ID and others ..

There will always be certain individuals that protest about such things, wich is fair enough..but if it helps the majority and the benefits out weigh the downfalls, personaly i think people that get irate about it should reconsider and not go slightly ott with 'govermental infringements of liberties'

Give us a few alternatives instead ?.

 

Usually "alternatives" implies that there is some kind of problem, which I just don't see. What's the main purpose behind these cards? I don't think the government wanting more information on us, for no reason other than to have the information, is a valid reason to pursue this. The current system of state-issued driver's licenses, birth certificates, privately-issued credit cards, etc. seems to work OK.

If there was a valid reason for this invasion of privacy, I might be more inclined to support this. But I don't see any reason other than the government feels they need even MORE information about its citizens. A national ID card presumes that every person in the country is guilty until proven innocent, it allows the government to know practically everything about us from our dining habits to what videos we rent, and if it's mismanaged could result in people being harassed by the government or bombarded with personalized, government-sanctioned spam for the rest of their lives.

 

How exactly would this initiative increase public safety. It's a fact the hijackers on September 11 had legitimate state-issued identification. They didn't steal anyone's identity. They simply made them up. How does requiring U.S. BC's to be centrally registered and U.S. ID holders to register biometric info reduce the threat of foreign, muslim terrorism. Much as they may like, the Dept of Homeland Futility cannot control these processes in other countries. So all of these domestic initiatives are inherently ineffective, inherently postured against law-abiding citizens, and inherently likely to result in reduced liberties. Go ahead and trust the government if you want; I'm sure they're doing it all for our own good (not at all). Fortunately, I do trust in the incompetence of large bureaucracy; that may be our only hope. I don't think any problem has been solved in this manner, creating new departments or centralizing information. They constantly let known terrorists board airplanes, so their chances of really tracking us are probably thin. Why even give them the chance, though?

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security." -Benjamin Franklin

 

Yeah, those government-issued social insecurity numbers are REEAALL secure, aren't they?
The purported reason for this is to "prevent terrorism". Who will prevent the terrorism on the part of the government toward the citizenry it is supposed to serve?

 

I realy don't think it gathers information, merely will hold already known information already 'out there' some of wich you mentioned. It will be 'static' information only changing when your circumstances do, such as moving house. Plus more intractitble evidence of your ID such as your finger print and iris print. While thinking of this a while ago, i figured it is akin to the ever changing bank note and the level of trust that has been lost to prove its authenticity, and the means that have been adopted to prove it is 'real'. Think of ourselves as bank notes having to ever change how we have to prove that we are who we say we are. As sad and dishearting as that is, it is a fact of societies and how they have changed over the years from threats and mushroomed issues i.e immigration (i realise a heated arguement in itself). You won't have to use it as some form of credit card, loyalty card or show it when you go down to Blockbusters etc etc (do you actualy believe that ?) . Just a means to get govermental ammenities and benefits and services also to have acces to certain goverment owned sites and of course to travel abroad or within the US.

It also (from what i read) more like a 'credit' of id . It does not take much to get a driving licence bank card etc but to continue like more than a transcendent person within a country, US id cards will tie in lots of diffrent information .. 'real id' i think has been banded about.

Unlike you thinking it presumes every one is guilty it will assume if you have nothing to hide you are innocent. Of wich 99.99% of people are.

I don't mean to be rude but get over yourselves the goverment has no real intrest in spamming you or any one, why would they ?. If they wanted too, anyone who votes or has any current goverment issued documents could be 'spammed' right now, are you ?.

ID cards are not 'new' just WE need it now.

I am not sure if i have given my view on all your points with the response i gave Kandahar (I hope so, i don't wish to repeat myself)..

My POV i don't think i gave was for ....

It is a question of each country sharing the legitamcy and 'authenticity' of there residents . It also gives a clean slate of information of 'foreigners' who for what ever reason don't come from countries that wish to share such information. know one who has nothing to hide would try and sneak under the radar.. Lie and get false documentation why would they ?. It is a question of people wishing to hide themselves not be upfront and honest of themselves and there actions.

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth —That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, —and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages."-Benjamin Franklin

Should we follow the 'truths' within the bible as well ?.

 

But a national ID card would be controlled by the GOVERNMENT. If banks or other private businesses want to require some kind of invasive proof of identity, that's their right, just as it would be my right to no longer give them my business. However, the government could REQUIRE everyone to have an ID card. I still don't see why the government needs to collect all of this information on its citizens in the first place.

The point was that the more information is stored on this card and the more often it is used, the more likely someone (presumably the government) could abuse this information.

That's dangerous thinking...All kinds of invasions of privacy can be justified by saying you have nothing to hide if you're innocent.

You're right that the government could spam you now if they really wanted to, but it would cost too much to send "personalized spam" to be worthwhile. However, having all of your vital information condensed on one little card would make it much easier. Spam (including telemarketing and junk mail) could be automated and customized to the individual consumer.

What problems in America are so radically different now than ten years ago, that can be solved (or at least lightened) with an ID card?

If I'm understanding you correctly, this ID card would also be required of foreigners coming in to the country? If nothing else, that will create a grave economic problem. Most tourists and investors in America are Europeans and Canadians, where there are much higher proportions of civil libertarians who could decide not to come at all if they were required to get an ID card.

Also, some countries will simply not have the resources (or be willing to) check in to every one of their citizens entering America.

 

It is not collecting information that is not already out there..just storing or having it available in one place..joined up thinking if you like.

The use of one form rather than a multitude of diffrent forms of id is a good thing. How much information could be stored, there is a upper limit i think. Asking personal questions like 'how many times do you have sex a week.'.or 'who do you vote for', is clearly a infringent of information that is no ones business but your own. Like i was saying earlier i think the information will be static, and merely a way of joining the dots of this information so a clearer more accurate picture of a person can be garnered. We still have data protection any information on these cards is in under strict guidlines.

Ok.. given my logic that it is not holding any more information than is not available other than iris and fingerprints and that it is just a 'clean slate' approach how can anyone be under suspicion that has nothing to hide.. We/you don't have goverments that fundementaly take issue with any one that is not a 'threat'.

As now you can 'opt out' even goverments can't send you crap you don't want.

We possibly could have done with ID cards back then. The political climate was possibly worse than it is now..who knows what crisis could have been avoided/stemmed if we did both here and in the UK.. Each goverment takes into consideration the mood (i guess) or stops being so reluctant to rock the boat. I can accept that both the UK and the US were waiting for the right climate of 'fear' though not unwarranted imho but i guess not your opinion ?.

I think that visas and other past documentaion and required paper work to enter the US has altered .. I don't think people are going to be barred from entering .. tourists are 'foreigners' and i realy don't think that side of things will change.. if your wishing to remain in the US or come over to the UK (when ours is introduced) it will be more of a part of residency requirement.

I am sure some companies will not agree to such measures..but that will be a personal choice. Companies are going to take a less political view of this and accept certain things, like communicating in English using certain weights and measures ..it will be just another hurdle that weighed against any financial profit/loss predictions will sway them greater than 'libertarian' ideals... these companys will i am sure get grief and be deemed sell outs , working with the enemy etc etc etc .

Well those that don't probably don't want the individual in the country in the first place. Or have had to flee thats immigration/asylum for you ?. We have normal diplomatic relations with our 'friends' its our 'enemies' we don't. Not to say we as people are pawns and worthless peices within a game of geo political significancies or anything ... just if you wish to live in certain places great big hoops will have to be jumped through.
You have to be finacialy viable to move to such places as Australia , and other places like Switzerland, even if your born there you have to go through a 'trial' of sorts just to get a passport to say your swiss. It is all a huge a pain in the ass i realise that.

 

It's pretty easy to see the reasoning behind a card like this. All the information goes in to a huge database that can be cross referenced to eliminate or include possibilities during an investigation. They can track ingrediants used to create bombs and any anomalies within the buying and selling of chemicals will easily show up. Tracking evidence found at murder scenes or robberies could be much easier as well.

Now, at the time of this cards conception I doubt they had in mind to be concerned about tracking Joe's porn rentals at Movie World or care how many people are eating Rice Krispies. However, in the future I may be concerned about the possibility of government profiting by selling this information to companies. Even so, I highly doubt any personal information that mattered would be attached to this data. Maybe companies would get more demographical stuff like age and education specific information for their products.

This debate is really nothing new though. People just aren't willing to sacrifice anything for security.

 

How do you opt out?

 

Correction: People USED to not be willing to sacrifice anything for security.

 

The fact that the government keeps reiterating that these cards will help "fight terrorism" when in fact they will do no such thing makes me believe there is an alterior motive. Just like the Iraq war - terrorism was used as an excuse, even though terrorism had nothing to do with it.