First off, get it through your simple little minds that I am neither a communist nor a socialist.....I just want what is best for everyone. Back on the thread about universal healthcare, most "conservatives" used an argument that limiting the amount of money a doctor could suck out of you would give them less incentive to work....basically that such things cause people to be lazy and have no drive, so it is nessecary for them to charge outrageous prices for their services. On the other hand, I've heard these same conservatives support limited wages in 3rd world countries by saying things like "those people are just happy to have a job at all," and that kind of nonsense. Implying that as it doesn't matter if they only make a nickel an hour because hey, at least it is a job. My question is, why is it that upper class white americans believe that limiting the number of raises a CEO recieves every year will make his quality of work go down, but yet some kid over in pakistan should shut up and be grateful for his 50 cents a day? Please don't get all freaked out and offended, but I'm just wondering why there is such a double standard.
This thread is kind of confusing and all over the place, so I'll take it bit by bit. Well, I'm not a conservative, nor did I discuss the above in the post that I made under the thread in question. But let's take into consideration that health care in the US is as good as it is because the doctors get paid in such sickly large amounts. Do you think health care would increase or decrease in quality if doctor's wages were all of a sudden cut in half? In Canada, everyone has health care, but the health care in Canada is not half as good as in America. Also take into consideration that Canadians pay almost 60% of their earnings in taxes to support this system. This is why most Canadians come here for major surgeries and whatnot. You're going off on a tangent. What does this have to do with doctors or health care? The two are entirely different. I guess it's because people don't care about how much those people are paid because they're not going to be performing open-heart surgery on anyone. There is a difference between someone who is putting together disposable cameras for 10 cents an hour and someone perfoming major surgery on another person. But I am speaking in terms of common sense, not about what is morally right. Well, I don't know how true that is. Sounds kind of like a stereotype. Besides, I doubt anyone in here is exactly "upper class," considering that few people are. I mean, how do you expect anyone to answer this? You make it sound like we have CEO's that post in the forums. Because that's life! Life isn't fair. Do I condone it? No. It's just the way it is, there's nothing anyone can do about it.
So in other words, Rat, even after your long schpeil we are back to square one without an ounce of resolution to contribute to the subject. Is that accurate?
"You're going off on a tangent. What does this have to do with doctors or health care? The two are entirely different." I'm only using the doctors as a comparison because that was the one that brought it to my attention. I've heard the same excuse used for every other type of job. My basic point overall is, why would it make americans' quality of work go down, but yet people in other poorer countries are expected to work for a tiny fraction of our min. wage and still be expected to work their ass off?
Probably because the people in developing countries will work for small amounts of money, while Americans would demand much more. Do I agree with this? Do I agree with outsorcing? Fuck no! Its causing working-class Americans to lose their jobs. I am only answering your question in a very literal way, though. It would cause American's quality of work to go down because they are so used to receiving the wages they have always received. You can't just suddenly cut a person's wages drastically after receiving those wages for such a long time, and expect their quality of work to remain the same. People in third-world countries don't expect large wages because they have never seen large wages. It's pretty easy to figure out.
"In 20 years, the income of the richest 20% US families has increased by almost 50%, and the income of the poorest 20% of citizens have decreased by about 10%." I understand your point, rat. And I agree to an extent. But see, I'm not really talking about cutting wages or anything of that nature. Statistically speaking, very few american's make much more now than they did 10 years ago. There are certain people in this country who make alot more than they should though (lawyers come to mind ) and it seems to me that whenever this type of conversation comes up, conservative leaning people tend to argue that by limiting it somehow, the quality of work will go down. (quality, like enron perhaps?) I'm not suggesting everyone have a set salary decided for them by the gov't or anything.....it's just that it seems like a lame argument to suggest that american's will riot whereas 3rd world people just accept it. All I'm saying is based on that information, I don't think america will fall apart if a CEO is making 150,000 a year instead of 1.5 mil.
i would consider it comparing apples and oranges. in a thrid world country where people never made any money at all, even the lowest wages are still better than what they were earning before, which was no wages. then there's all the malpractice insurance, lawsuits and education loans that docs have to pay off. they nearly kill themselves for a lot of years to get through school, work all hours of the days and night, then can't charge a good sum for it?
Well lawyers, doctors, and CEOs all had to work their asses off to get to where they are. Doctors have to go to school for at least 8 or 10 years to be able to practice medicine, and most go for more. Same for lawyers, they have to memorize ridiculous amounts of material to be able to pass the Bar exam, and law school isn't cheap or easy. I don't know about CEOs, but I'm sure most they're very intelligent people who contribute something ingenius to the company in order to get to where they are, otherwise they wouldn't be getting all the money they do. Third world workers, on the other hand, can't really demand a whole lot because what they're doing doesn't require a whole lot of skill. It doesn't take 8 years of college to figure out how to stitch pants together. Of course, it's still wrong that they make so little and get exploited, but that's the reason for it.
It's really hard to compare CEO's and other wealthy people in America to people living in a third-world country. The thing is, most third-world citizens DO accept it, and that's why it goes on. Most Americans, on the other hand, are used to making the wages they make, be them doctors, CEO's, bankers, etc.. So it's really hard to compare two things like this when they have pretty much always been the way they are now. We live in a world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and that is indeed a sad reality. But that's how it goes. It's beyond my, and everyone elses, control. All I can say is that I can't see doctors, lawyers, or CEO's having their wages cut drastically anytime soon, unless perhaps the country comes under Communist rule or something.
I really didn't mean to compare basic labor with doctors and CEO's and such, I guess I got a little off track. My main point is that many people claim that things like communism and so on will make people lazy and give them no reason to work hard because they have no way to advance or something along those lines, but yet people overseas do the same exact work for just a fraction of the pay, and they still work their asses off for it. I would like someone to tell me what makes them think that people would just suddenly stop working in a communist or socialist system. Obviously the rest of the world doesn't work that way. Mind you, I'm not making any argument for or against anything, I'm just wondering why people use this argument when it seems to be pretty invalid.
Wow, Moonshyne thinking? Doctors get paid out the ass because it's skilled work, malpractice insurance is at ungodly rates, and you deserve wealth if you are in the career of helping the health of people. Also try to convert the amount of money people in 3rd world countries make to american dollars. They aren't being paid 50 cents by our standards.
Yep, miracles do happen occasionally You're such an ass. If they wanna go chopping off the wrong leg or cutting out the wrong kidney, they should expect lawsuits. Doctors do deserve more i think then say, someone working in a dog food factory....but how many houses or boats or race horses does someone need really? you're right, it's more like a whooping 75 cents - $1.50. Woo hoo!
It's not as simple as "chopping off the wrong leg or cutting out the wrong kidney," and in a lot of cases the doctors didn't do anything terribly bad or at all wrong, but the blood sucking malpractice lawyers can make it seem that way. Who are you to tell someone else what they can or can't do with the money that they earned? There's a name for a government which dictates to it's citizens what they "need" and "don't need," it's communism, and it doesn't work.
Nice way to start off a thread... Communists often think they know what's best for everyone. What's best for you may not be best for me. People can take care of themselves and obtain what's "best" for themselves. I'm not a conservative, but I'm not really for universal healthcare. Yes, it would be better to put money towards that rather than a war, but I think people are largely in control of their health. No one should be refused healthcare nor should it be so unaffordable, but it shouldn't be provided by the government (i.e. taxpayers). I know this has been mentioned before, but to reiterate, docs work hard and are smart and severely in debt once out of school. My friend was $100,000 in debt after vet school. People sue for ridiculous and immoral reasons. When undergoing surgery of any type, you assume a risk that the result may not be favorable. It's unavoidable. Even doctors are not perfect. This country is sue-happy. That's all I have a comment on.
