I want the war televised

So anybody who's never been convicted of murder is a pansy?

I addressed this, go back and read my post again.

You are a fan of incestuous amplification then? Pretty darn sad that you can admit so.

Reason? If your beliefs are "reason" you are not a very reasonable person.

It never hurts to have an open mind.

So I should not like something just because its openly hated? Sorry but I'm not a conformist.

Who is spying on you??? And really, what gain would a government get from spying on you??

Who are "them" ?

I'd rather have you tell me what my government is about, since you know so much.

There are soldiers patrolling the streets of Iraq and Afghanistan as we speak -- protecting the peace from insurgents.
I'm sure you cannot back up your statement about where the money is going to.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty certain they disowned him quite a while ago.

 

From most of the indications this is true. I know some members of his family have spoken out about him. F*ck it i'm going to go out on a limb. I'm pretty sure also they disowned him quite a while ago.

I'm sure in some peoples minds. He was on one of those jets getting some of his family out of the country, back in 2001.

 

You are wrong toni - OBL was a director of the same group of companies as GW
see Michael Moore (stupid white men etc)
As for your reasoning Politicsisawesome - you seem to do what most people without critical methods of analysis do - you purposely misinterpret my words to bellitle the argument. the point is to actually take my words as being a literal expression, and to take the logic apart as toni is trying to do - but I refuse to argue with someone who is merely trying to twist what I say - its pointless
as far as I know - government spys on its citizens - fuck that - who are they to do that - every fuckin high street has got police cameras in Britain - I never voted for that - no-one did - I never voted that government has the right to tap phone calls - did you?????
read this - over 2 BILLION PHONE CALLS TAPPED AND READ AND ANALYSED BY COMPUTERS IN REAL TIME - the NSA spys on US citizens and the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menwith_Hill

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1357264.stm
I will give you more links if you like - google for Echelon menwith hill

toni - I would accept that I have added too much passion into what is essentially a logical point - maybe it would help if you realise that I reached a long time ago a decision that one sits back and accepts the order of things or one fights. You are right I am not violent perse' and that is the point - no matter what any government says it has stopped listening to the people - they want this war stopped - if the government is not the servant of the people then so be it - I do not accept their authority to act without the consent of the people - I engage in propoganda against the governments I know best - they lost the moral argument the day they lied about WMD
Unfortunately for your argument toni - the world is not blind or stupid

 

Recruiters always promise you something, that's what they do. Don't be naive. They used to offer buddy ups and career paths, they couldn't back their promises, but it didn't stop them. Who knows what they promise today.

There will always be some that will do what they shouldn't, and if the majority are scared of speaking out, it will be worse than it should be. Since this administration stood behind torture and other things that most previous administrations never sanctioned, it's hard for the grunts to know right from wrong. But I would hope my children and their friends would have been raised to intrinsically realize when their actions overstepped the bounds of humane/civilized conduct. And I hope that they would risk courtmartial over inhuman acts.

 

Getting your information from somebody that manipulates the facts is never a good idea. It furthers MM and others proposition , that is why he and others include it. It's not always what you include it is what you remove.

I did notice a little twisting , i chalked it up to sarcasm. My first draft looked like his. I changed my tone though. Everybody has there own ways i suppose. I did agree with most of it though.

If they listen to people that want this war stopped [i imagine immediatly] then they ignore the views of people like me and a vast majority of those that ultimately matter. You have every right to disagree with the actions taken. You don't have to be so petulant .

They did not lie imho. 25 goverments had the same information passing there desks. If you where privy to that information i suspect you would have come to the same conclusions. If not then you have chosen to resign or have a differing opinion to a lot of people. I doubt you would be working fo a goverment, i guess you appreciate what i mean ?.
It turned out to be outdated or lies from Saddam.
With hindsight [a lovely thing] we can choose wich we wish to believe.
I believed we were lied to also. Then i noticed [over time] who was continueing with that logic. Those apposed to war and those apposed to Bush [in the most part].
In the end it is a dicision we all make with the facts we have in front of us.

I do think it is wrong if you refuse to accept a truth that is maybe uncomftable [i've had to swollow a few].
I don't suspect one days worth of talking about this issue will not ultimaetly change either of our minds. It took over a year to come to the place i am now [I don't know about you].

No just sometimes unbelievably patronising.

 

Thank you gardener - in britain a man was courtmartialled for refusing to go to iraq (I think it was iraq) - his defence was - he was told the war was illegal
and infact that until a court decided its legality - his best legal advice was stay at home.
He did and in court the judge said it was not fr the soldier to say whether the war was legal or not - just to obey orders
So what happened to the Nazis who were just obeying orders?
didnt they execute most of em?

 

They thought WMD were there cuz they sold it to Iraq - it was an excuse dont you get it?
They helped saddam commit genocide but that truth would see them executed so they went in and had a war based on the lie they were lookin for the stuff - oh forget it

---- you either get or you dont and I aint gonna play a nitpickin game - if you work for those c*nts then good luck to you - if you dont then - get wise soon - get real wise to it because free speech is the next casualty

 

I'd go and check out what was going on it WW2. What was being sanctioned back then. That 'glorious' war we all get misty eyed about. It is a little wrong to think we are worse now. I think we are 100 times better.

 

Bush and his administration sold the world a piece of goods with his claims of WMD, it was manufactured, pure and simple. Why do you think Collin Powell stepped down even he couldn't stomach what they were putting over, even if his son ended up with a cushy Washington job, because of his stories over the the trucks, that were supposed to be mobile biological weapons labs, they turned out to be portable toilets. Who's the joke on? Those of the western world that bought into it or those that refuse to accept that they were manipulated?

 

I don't get misty eyed over WWII or WWI or Vietnam or Korea or any of this senseless crap, that gets innocent people killed, and people in power with clean hands richer than they ever were before.

I have no illusions as to what is wrong or right. How are we better? Answer me that Toni. I bet your stock portfolio has gone up hasn't it. That's how this administration has continued to sell their war mongering. They call it spreading democracy....whose democracy might that be, I don't think it's mine.

 

I happen to think that of all those leaders Colin Powell was a good man -
It is as you say gardener a shame such a man was caught up in a sordid and
evil regime like the Bush-Cheney-Rhumsfeld alliance

 

OK, so tell us exactly what your agenda is, Dr Phibes. You seem to take great relish in naming names, people of whom most Americans already have had a belly full. So tell us, exactly what is your point? Shall I spill it for you?

You hate Americans because you hate America. You disagree with capitalism and you can't seem to get your way, so you will stamp your little foot and hate, hate, hate, because your frustration has to go someplace. I would bet my life that you were not raised by hippies, or even liberals. You're rebelling. Hippie parents would have taught you that Americans get shoved into every crisis and then we get fucked getting out of them. By our own leaders. They would have taught you what the organizers of the Chicago protests of 1968 will tell you. Street demonstrations are useless. Political actionis the only way to defeat fascism in the US, and that takes FUNDRAISING so Socialism/Anarchy are not viable bases for change here. Finally, you like it. You like being venomous. You like the hate that keeps you warm. You're a pox. Good luck to you.

 

You know zoomie, you should think more and post less - your rabid attacks belittle your own intelligence and make me think of a dude I tangled with in here called shane- something or other - turned out he was a capitalist book salesman posing as an anarchist
I cant help being quick witted as much as you cannot help missing the point and thus the target. I choose my targets carefully from now on and will not rile you no more as you obviously have no argument - just a personal attack
may I suggest that you lie down and rest a while before reading about the NSA that listens to your phone calls from Menwith Hill in Britain, You will find it in wikipedia and on the BBC site - do a search for Echelon - but then you know all about that dont you?
You know I will never tire of telling someon they are wrong - until I realsie they are not merely wrong but will always be wrong because some people never learn

 

Actually, the NSA listens to my phone calls from Operations Building #2 at Ft Meade, about 7 miles from my home. I know, I used to work there. What makes you think I'd believe the BBC? That's the problem with you Social Anarchists. You're so wrapped up in your anger and your anti-this and anti-that you never really get to the truth do you?

 

Oh zoomie do I smell the bile rising from you - you know I only tell the truth because if it wasnt the truth it would be easy to defeat. The fact is it is the truth and impossible to beat. You can attack the man but the logic will survive -
YOU ARE AFRAID OF THE TRUTH _ IS THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF WHAT THE TRUTH CAN DO - YOU LIKE THE LIE BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE TRUTH WILL CAUSE THE LIE TO COLLAPSE AND BESIDES YOU EARN A FAT BUCK FROM THE LIE?
ARE YOU A GHOUL ZOOMIE _ ARE YOU IN THE CIRCUS? (as the brits used to call it) IS THAT WHY THE TRUTH IS SO HURTING TO YOU ?

 

Please then, oh sage of Albion, enlighten me so that my fear may die...

 

OK, nearly 22 hours and you haven't responded. I was serious. If you are so concerned with the future and survival of the human race you should be spreading enlightenment.

 

The truth is that Oscar Wilde painted a "W"
on both his butt cheeks
so when he bent over it spelt WoW

 

i want to dispatch a crack troop of militant activists throughout the globe armed with point-of-view guns.