I suck at the plots:

Well, that sort of covers it really. I can spend ages working out scenarios, characters, the odd set piece, but unless I get given a plot from somewhere else I never have a clue. I can usually tell what I want to happen to the characters, how I want them to develop, but can never come up with a plot. I've been told that you can write great stories in one setting where two people just talk and nothing really happens, and people always say it like that's the definitive answer to writer's block and as if I'd be asking if it were that simple.

So yeah, basically I really want to write something with a plot and can never think of one. Any ideas?

I've thought about collaboration, but it never really works out because I just pick holes in other people's styles. I'm an ass, after all.

 

You have a themes void when it comes to plots, because you haven't met the mirad of evils this Race does to people...

 

Hello SC. In the past you have helped people in here with considerate advice and researched references, so if you can tell me with which novel-genre your style is related to, I will try and PM you a short scenario, or two, which you can develop, or perhaps be inspired with.

 

The last thing I want to do is write about myself. Often my characters have a little of me in them - menial jobs, cynicism, narcissism, a basic contempt for human life - but I prefer to write more in the vein of "what would it be like if x happened to me? What would I do?" But without knowing what to make happen I can't really extrapolate much.

I kinda wanted to write a sci-fi that isn't really anything to do with science, if that makes sense. I want to write about the human side of that. If you think of spaceships as aeroplanes; I want my characters to be normal people who know about as much about how a spaceship works as I know how an aeroplane works. It's partly because I don't know shit about the science, but also because i don't like getting bogged down in that sort of thing. The last thing I want when I'm actually getting into the story is twenty or so paragraphs that I can't actually read because they're too technical and not interesting. I'm just impatient, I guess.

That's kind of the world I'm in. I've had it developing so vividly in my mind for so long that a big part of me doesn't want to do anything short of biblical with it, but I don't think I have the will to write grand plots; if I personally wouldn't do anything to prevent the end of existence, I can't write as someone who would.

I've tried writing "real world" stuff, but it never works. I guess I'm just not happy enough with the world to write about it. I keep wanting to fuck the rules and have people doing stuff that they'd never get away with, but then reality kicks in and they're facing the consequences of a massive killing spree and it's only about 2000 words into the book.

Um... that was rather meandering. Often when I write about writing about things, I end up releasing ideas that I never knew I'd thought of. Not this time though.

So yeah, any suggestions? I'm open to discussion of ideas on here, if someone nicks one and gets their bestseller published while I'm clearing my desk then I'll just have to remember to keep my desk clearer in future.

 

Since you like to dabble in sci-fi without necessarily splashing into science, it may be worth going down the same road as George Orwell did with his novel 1984, or even Antony Burgess with A Clockwork Orange. Obviously you wouldn't find these writers on the same library bookshelf as Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke(unless the library was very small indeed). And yet they describe future worlds where the emphasis is not so much the technological influence of the future, but the socio-political outcome.

Now, if you choose to perhaps expand on a futurescape scenario, you can adopt all your ideas and feelings to create worlds as ideal, or corrupt as you see fit. You can make them as depressing as Orwell, or lace them with dark humour, like Burgess. Of course, you will be the judge of that and since I've noticed you are a great lover of the word, sometimes the story tends to flow by itself, once the initial momentum has been set rolling.

Alternatively, you can use another approach and though I'm aware that there are limitless directions, you will probably have less of a headache if you narrow down your options. You can set your work in the past, perhaps in a vague semi-mythical civilization, ie. Atlantis, or Hyperborea. With so much learned text available you can research into creating an interesting setting for your reader, whilst at the same time use your characters to communicate your ideas.

I'm sure that either way you'll have fun with it.

 

I kind of grew up on the conceptual side of sci-fi: Ray Bradbury, Asimov to an extent, HG Wells, Jules Verne, were all thinkers rather than scientists. Unfortuantely, I think of lot of their hypothetical questions have been answered, or asked to death. I doubt there's much more mileage one can get out of AI, time travel etc.

I think I will need to ditch the existing mega-scenario that I'd developed, because it's become almost too developed, to the point where I don't want to do anything to it. I do like the socio-political idea, but again, not wanting to change anything, I don't know where I'd take it.

As to writing my ideas, I'm way too cynical. I don't know if I even have any left. I can't imagine not being that cynical either; if I try to write characters who don't regard everything with suspicion and contempt, who believe in anything, they just end up coming off as stupid. Perhaps that's just the way I read them, I don't know.

I'm thinking of just saying fuck it and going Manga on it, just writing about big flying robots and trying the epic approach. I doubt it'd work as well on paper though. Alternatively, I'd go the other way, and work in a much more primitive world. But I suspect that might clash with the cynicism. Maybe not.

Wow, there was even more incoherent than normal.

I think I need a specific assignment more than anything. The carte blanche that I have the power to give myself scares the shit out of me.

 

That just goes to show SC that you put more thought into your work and are not content to delve out something that you yourself are not happy with. That in itself is a noble act of a true artist. Regarding the scope of the theories we have access to, I would say that you're probably right in that sci-fi has pretty much covered everything, but then again I'm not convinced that is totally true. A person may hit on an idea completely by accident, bringing new concepts and with it updated philosophies. Try writing a short story. At the moment I'm in the process of writing 5. I've finished the first one and I'm reasonably pleased with it. Now I use Greece as the base of all my stories and I'm lucky in that I can draw on a lot of history from it. Living in England, you're fortunate in that you're also surrounded by a rich source of history too, so my other suggestion to you would be to use that. For example, how about creating a scenario set in the English Civil War(you can visit a lot of historical sites close to you) and amalgamating it to create something not necessarily new, but different. Rather than someone going back, or forth in time, you can create characters with progressive notions that are persecuted for things that may seem ridiculous to us today. I'm sure things like that have been written before, but once you're drawn into your world your persona will find an angle that is unique. Another idea: The Druids have been banned from using Stonehenge for their ceremonies, because the authorities want to conserve a national monument. But is that the only reason? You can expand with a short story easily on that one and capitalize on the realism and historical factor, since it's in your country of residence. You can add suspense, romance, revenge, greed, super-natural, aliens, war, pretty much anything you like. You're the chef. Now get dinner ready

 

Setting annoys me. I kind of want to write the same stories regardless of setting. Even though a big part of me knows it's a bad idea, I've always wanted to do more justice to the quiet periods of history. Before the invention of aircraft, big wars could completely not affect the common man.

It really is the plot I have the problem with. I get started, but then without knowing my ending I run out of momentum. I'm going to try and get something done by Easter, in between the tedious CSound programming I'm privy to.

 

i believe i may have mentioned the book what if? exercises for fiction writers to you before, have i? i ordered it years ago through the quality paperback book club, but i saw it on the shelves of barnes & noble a few weeks ago. amazon has the second edition, here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321107179/qid=1109217398/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-7011699-5075311?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

order a used copy of the first edition, it's much cheaper.

i think that this book can help you with some of your difficulty. it has an excellent section on plot development exercises, but many of the plot exercises also center around characterization, so perhaps they'll be useful in helping you draw a plot out of your characters. don't expect everything to be there all at once, and all your writing doesn't have to be story advancement. you can let the plot come out of your characters, and let the setting come out of your plot. this book is an excellent investment. it belongs on my desk right next to the thesaurus & dictionary. it is that useful. probably one of the best books i ever purchased.

regarding genre writng and science fiction, i write fantasy, which is similar to sci-fi in that it is a form of speculative fiction, although SF speculates in a different way. whereas SF looks beyond and attempts to explain the marvels of its worlds based on natural laws, fantasy looks inward, into the realm of wonder, myth, and archetype. although technology and its workings play an important role in all SF by definition, it doesn't necessarily have to be a central role, just as fantasy by definition includes magic but doesn't always make that the central focus of the work. stranger in a strange land by robert heinlein comes to mind.

in either type of writing, plot comes from conflict, and is driven by desire. take a good look at some of your characters. what are there desires? how do they relate to each other? are their desires compatible? where does the conflict come from? neither SF nor fantasy has to be epic in scope. sometimes it can be very personal. do you want to focus on the character's personal conflicts, or are they set against a greater conflict on a larger scale? you don't always have to write in "interesting times" if the personal conflicts are interesting and important enough.

there is nothing wrong with feeling like you need an "assignment" to get started on or further develop a writing project. a lot of writers feel that way. the challenge is in learning to generate your own assignments. that's what freewrites and exercises are for. no great writing comes out of exercises, but often great ideas do. i think the above mentioned book will be very useful to you. you also might want to look into books by natalie goldberg.

pm me if you want to discuss genre writing further. or start another thread, this place needs a little livening up.

 

First you need to determine the bases and ceilings of all schools of thought...

 

That is absolutely fascinating!!! I'm not sure I understand any of it, but I am truly beguiled!

 

Put the elipses down and come out with your hands up.

 

Learn to understand it... You'll be better for it...

 

Is it a drug thing, or can you do it while lucid?

 

If "lucid" means you are open to all, then OK it be lucid...

 

...

You're having a threesome on your own in your mind?

Keep going, this is all gold.

 

You are playing with a lady, and you've illusion a third party to be in on the touching, and kissing, and stuff... You illusioned it into an allsense mindform

 

Like in the film adaptation of "Naked Lunch"?

 

Sortof... but these silly little mindform critters are docile and cute...
but when I make it a 300 foot dragon, people run away with wet pants...

One extremely powerful witch scared the heck out of me when while I was massagng her... she started changing into a huge tiger... A bit of a shock! What a nasty sense of humour...
Those witches are a lot of fun, but they can sure turn you around fast...

 

Witches eat sinews. Don't let them. They do it real slyly, just creeping up on you with honeyed words, distractions and such. Next thing you know, they've undone the machinery of your legs after about thirty seconds of conversation. If you meet one, you're safer just to stove her head in as soon as look at her. Sure, it's not always easy to spot them at a glance, but there are signs.


I had a threesome with my best friend's ex and my ex-boyfriend's ex on a first date. No mindforms were involved, as far as I'm aware.