I was raised pretty much christian; Not in an OVERLY religious family, but we attended church almost every sunday. Till i was about 14, I had an undying belief in god. Well, that changed. I dont know what happened, but one day, I was thinking about religion, as i had begun to detest church due to how boring it is. I started to wonder where god has been throughout all my life. I'd always heard so many good things about god, but had never really felt his 'presence', his 'support', or his 'love' for me. I started to doubt what everyone always says about religion. Eventually I became a full blown atheist. Every time i think about it, I hate religion more. Religion causes wars all over the world. The middle east has always been full of war and genocide throughout history, the majority of it due to religion. In my opinion, 'god' causes more pain and fighting amongst us humans than he helps to fix. Religion isn't about love, faith, or helping people. Its about control, manipulation, lies. The bible is an old book written by a couple of crazy ass radical thinkers countless years ago. Christianity, judaism, hinduism, or any other popular religion out there are all just really big cults. They're no different than the cults created by Charlie Manson or Jim Jones. People often think the Church of Scientology is a just bunch of crazy people that worship made up entities from outer space... but is that honestly any harder to believe than a random virgin having a kid that claims he is the son of a mysterious 'being in the heavens' that sent him to earth to be murdered? I think christianity is filled with just as crazy people as the Church of Scientology. Religious philosophies are really hard to believe, if you think about it logically. Religion is just a burden on the human race. It's a waste of time. A waste of life. A waste of thought. God is nonexistant. Faith in him is a pointless venture. I often feel bad for those brainwashed into believing in him. You're all being lied to controlled. Wake up. Live your own life, don't believe everything you're told. Just because mommy and daddy persist in telling you that "GOD IS REAL. BELIEVE. FOLLOW HIS ORDERS." doesn't mean you must believe them. Think about it. Has god ever openly done anything to help you out? Still believe in 'god'? ps. all of you theists out there preparing to comment on this and profess you're love for your religion, go for it. Go ahead and complain about how wrong you think this post is. Do what you wish. I just hope you snap out of your religious stupor one day and experience the real world. peacee
To some religion is just truth.. h2o makes water, this is truth! To make water you have to follow the order . to split water into atoms hydrogen/oxygen you have to follow orders and laws.. These laws are truths.. you may not believe in god, but you still believe in order ..
I like the way Richard Dawkins talks about science and religion. Check out any of his books; there are also some YouTube videos of him speaking, debating, etc. in case you're not familiar with him. Many people find him too abrasive, but really he's just being honest.
You should just consider yourself lucky you are not a slave to organized ignorance. Religion is a sickness but this world is a sick place with or without it. Nature is a cruel bitch and there is some truth in that old saying ignorance is bliss. Maybe we need tools and slaves to balance the world like our comfortable American lives depend on cheap Asian work camps. Other than buying their cheap merchandise I say we should pull out of all eastern affairs and let middle easterners and asians kill each other off as they please, because half of 2 billion is still a billion tools and slaves! Yeah I'm a bastard.
Sometimes these debates over religion and God are matters of semantics. As a Progressive Christian, I could agree or disagree about what you say, depending on what you mean when you say it. You draw in interesting distinction between God and religion. What do you mean by these terms? In The God Delusion, Dawkins defines "God" as "a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us." Do I believe in such an Intelligent Creator? No. That doesn't mean I disbelieve in one. I just don't know, so that would make me an agnostic. But I don't think of myself that way. The concept of "supernatural" is difficult for me. What it usually means is that we don't yet understand something in terms of the laws of science which we've currently developed. Intelligence seems like a plausible explanation of the fine tuning of the universe, but I'm with Dawkins in trying to avoid worshiping a "God of Gaps". Same goes for "Creator". I'm a little less tautological than some Progressive Christians who define God as the "Ground of Being", which, like the Higher Power of the recovery groups can be anything you want it to be. To me, God is a felt presence of a transcendent benevolence "in whom we live and move and have our being". Note the ambiguity of the "felt presence". Is God an actual presence or just a feeling? I don't know. I don't care. I've used this crude analogy before (no sacrilege or blasphemy intended): to me God is primarily an experience most comparable to sex. When I'm having sex, it never occurs to me to ask how I know whether or not my partner exists. It would spoil the mood. I just go with it. Admittedly, God is a far less tangible partner than the people I ordinarily have sex with, but my point is that to me life is more meaningful and works out better if I operate "as if" the presence is real. Whether it is or not is irrelevant to me, just like it's irrelevant to me whether or not Jesus actually existed. To me, it's like those debates over whether or not Shakespeare actually wrote Shakespeare's plays--interesting to academicians, I guess but not something I give a rats ass about. "God" and "Jesus" are central to my concept of,and way of experiencing,the meaning of existence. I know others for whom this is also true, but I'm not going to put down people who have alternative meanings that work for them. Who am I to know? As you say, religion does not equal God. But what is religion? William James, in Varieties of Religious Experience, defines religion as "the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine"(p31). By that definition, I'm religious, but I prefer to call it "spiritual". I use the term religion to refer to a body of doctrines, institutions and/or group practices built around a common understanding of God and the divine. In other words, religion is a social phenomenon. I'm religious in that sense, as well. I disagree with the notion that religion is inherently evil, or that common metaphors are necessarily "fantasy". I know too many people who are sincerely motivated by religion to do good. Some of these are Christians. Others are Muslims. Some religion is really "about love, faith, or helping people". But unfortunately this isn't the kind that dominates the political scene today. In the United States, the "Christians" who get the most media attention, have the most political clout, and draw the most new followers are unfortunately the Latter Day Pharisees who most resemble their historical counterparts whom Jesus attacked. Their religion is a pernicious superstition and mind crippling disease which, as you say, is "about control, manipulation, lies", and is an evil, dangerous force that might destroy us all. Many moderate Christians keep their mouths shut because they're too meek and polite, or don't want to get their houses firebombed or their cars key scratched. Many moderate Muslims keep their mouths shut for the same reasons. I'm active in freethinker and humanist groups for consciousness raising, because they're involved in active resistance against these false religions, and because progressive religionists need all the allies they can get. Keep fighting the good fight. You're doing the Lord's work!
Could you maybe briefly define your beliefs, I was slightly confused about that subject when reading your post. It was a pretty big statement to say that all religion is evil. I should probably elaborate. What you mentioned about being less religious and more spiritual is what I tend to focus on in my life. I believe that if the world's religions had never existed, and were instead replaced with spirituality, we would live in a much more united community. Orginized religion tends to seperate our society quite a bit. Just as democrates often think themselves better than republicans (and vice versa) most religious people (despite what their religions actualy teach) tell themselves that they are right, and everyone else in the world is wrong. This is what is evil about it. The good that has been caused by orginized religion pales in comparison to the harm that has taken place because of this one factor. The "moderate" (as you call them) christians/Muslims/whoever are totaly fine. I have known some very wise Christians who have given me great insights into life. However, these people in no way have the influence they should, influence which instead belongs to hypocritical, malicious, hateful, assholes. I apologise for how scattered and chaotic this post is, but the point I'm trying to make is, that even though every religious person is not evil, the people who represent them are. These people have, do, and will cause far too much harm to the human race. Religion, in this sense, is completly evil, and should be replaced with spirituality, even if that spirituality is achieved through the Koran, the Bible, the Tou te ching, or any other book or philosophy. I don't know, I still feel as if my views aren't being expressed in the way I would like, but I guess I'll just live with it and take a writing class or something.
Don't apologize! I understand what you're saying and agree with it--100%, I think. See, that's what I meant when I said sometimes these disagreements are over semantics. I'll get back to you later with some answers to your request to outline my religious beliefs. I gather your momma didn't warn you: never invite a vampire, a Jehovah's Witness, or a Mormon into your home, or ask a Christian zealot to briefly outline his religious beliefs. Okie
Okay, I'm back and ready for action. In Sunday school today, we were talking among other things about Christian witness. The guy conducting the class, an ordained Baptist preacher (although the class was taught in a Methodist church) told us how, after his "born again" experience, he started witnessing his faith by wearing a big wooden cross around his neck, plastering his car with bumper stickers, and even writing "Jesus is the answer" grafitti on bathroom stalls. In retrospect, he thought he was pretty obnoxious. Another guy related what a Catholic friend had told him about a convert to Catholicism who was sharing his enthusiasm over the faith with him and another Catholic. When he left, one turned to the other and said "One thing that really annoys an old Catholic is a new Catholic". A third member of the class reported an observation from a Muslim friend: you don't see suicide bombers over thirty. I got the message. So I'll try not to be obnoxious. Could I briefly define my beliefs, you asked? I believe: -- that reason is the distinguishing feature of humanity, a divine gift, and that all beliefs should therefore be consistent with logic and evidence and based as much as possible on substantial evidence and the best available evidence; --that faith-based decisions (intuitive risk-taking) are preferable to no decisions or completely arbitrary ones; --that God is, as I said earlier, a "felt presence", which may be objective or purely subjective; --that the God hypothesis provides a plausible explanation for the fine tuning of the universe and the remarkable fact that conscious intelligent beings capable of contemplating the nature of the universe are around when (according to S.J.Gould) it could have easily been otherwise from an evolutionary standpoint; --that "God" is a useful focal point for my concept of personal meaning, but doesn't mean mine is right and others are wrong; --that the Bible is a record of the efforts of a remarkable people to understand the human experience in relation to God, but should be understood metaphorically and historically rather than literally, and should be read critically, intelligently, and with recognition of its historical context; --that the agapic principle (love) is the key to understanding scripture, and that any interpretation of scripture that presents God as approving or demanding cruelty, atrocities, and/or blind obedience to unreason is false and evil; --that the life and teachings of Jesus, as a model of judgment-free, unconditional universal love, especially for the rejects and losers of society (like me), embody the principles to which I choose to commit my life; -- that Heaven and Hell are states of mind experienced in this life rather than places we go to in an afterlife; that the Kingdom of Heaven is spread out everywhere around us if we'd just open our eyes and see it; --that Satan is a metaphor for the potential for evil that exists in each person, and "original sin" describes our attachments to wealth, status, power, sensual pleasure, etc., that rob us of true meaning and our true birthright. Is that brief enough?
Thanks for sharing. I don't know that I would call it any kind of Christian subcatagory (maybe you wernt trying to). More or less, it seems like you're an agnostic who follows the philosophy of the bible rather than actualy believe in it's stories. I agree with most of the things you wrote, I'll have to look more into progresive Christianity.
the proper term fur the sub catigory of any religion, christianity included, is a sect. if all anyone knows of religion is christianity (or any other single belief and no other) then they really haven't the slightest idea what they're talking about to love or "hate" all of religion in its more honest and generalized meaning. (of which christianity is neither more nor less that a single member, among many)
I dont hate religion, couldnt care less what anyone believes, as long as they dont abuse it, or use it to hurt people.
This makes me think of the famous quote. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." If what you know is who you are, in the terms of the quote, religion would be a person. In the case of a parent teaching a child, a gun. And in both cases, The hurt received and administered is mental. Ironically, okiefreaks post about his beliefs read like my windows update report. As i usually equate what i have dubbed "the lowest forms of religion" with early versions of windows.
Imagine a tap that water comes from. The tap can run at a very high capacity, but organized religion via the priests, pastors, mullahs, rabbis, etc. turns the tap down, to a tiny trickle, a drip. Then they proclaim themselves the guardians of the holy drip, & somewhere manage to inject themselves like a virus into the entire equation, making themselves closer to God than the congregation (& thus more fitting to be the one put in touch of the tap, & able to speak for God). This is my analogy. Alice Walker said something like "until every man & woman has a direct connection to the divine, humanity is not free." I agree with that, & see religion & the priests, etc as people getting in the way of the flow of the water, of the direct connection with the divine (whatever that is). trippinballs, I agree some with your assessment of religion. But at the same time, I wonder if there are really stupid sheeple who almost require some sort of answer-giving system, & religion gives that to them...without religion, maybe these hypothetical sheep-people will just turn to another answer-giving system that works even less efficiently & morally than religion? Like the military or something? Just a thought.
