I Hate Middle Class "Liberals" and "Socialists" (and here's why)

lol, keep telling yourself that...

 

When there's simply not enough to eat (thanks to the free market, for ruining the globe and it's formability in the pursuit of profit), all the shiny rocks you please, won't buy you a mouthful :2thumbsup:

 

Also if the shtf, I wouldn't be going around offering gold for stuff...some sicko with a bad case of gold fever will likely just forcibly take it from you.

 

Quite true.

I know (know of, that is, I try not to associate too closely with them, they make me uneasy) a few people who are fascinated with gold and silver.... know what? They're also fascinated with guns, and with being rugged individualists, which to them, means taking what they want, everyone else be damned.

So, if shit goes down and you have gold, someone with guns will take it, and possibly kill you just for funsies.

Unless you, too, hoard guns. Then you can shoot each OTHER for funsies.

Oh boy, the economy of the future will be exciting, with people like individual who know what's fair and how government shouldn't intervene in duels so long as they're held at high noon and.....

Yeah.

 

The difference between the United States currency and gold is that the government can't create significant quantities of gold out of thin air... Which gives a lot of faith that it will hold its value.

 

Roo and Gong,

I wish the two of you would first get together and decide if gold/silver have intrinsic value or not, and THEN try to explain your views in a more rational fashion.

And Roo, I wish you would put some effort in defining what is 'fair' from your point of view. And while you're at it, please explain why you felt "Oh boy, the economy of the future will be exciting, with people like individual who know what's fair and how government shouldn't intervene in duels so long as they're held at high noon and.....", appropriate and relative to something I've posted?

I'm having much difficulty trying to make sense out of your nonsense, and have yet to see "I Hate Middle Class "Liberals" and "Socialists" (and here's why)", answered in a reasoned and rational way. Perhaps the thread title is being interpreted as "I hate those who have things which I do not.", by many of those who respond?

 

Pretty sure neither of us have said they have any intrensic value.

But violent, armed people, who crave shiny things, will still hoard them, if things fall apart. It's entirely irrational, and does not make the value intrinsic.

Now, I personally do like silver, gold, and the like. I also like copper. And steel. I like metals, and making things with them, and precious metals. But I'm under no delusions about why they're precious, and it's not intrinsic.

I mean, there is intrinsic value, but gold has far less than, say, steel, or aluminium, or copper. They're not so intrinsically valuable that a tiny bit should be able to buy anything like a meal.

A railroad spike, being quality tool steel, has considerably more intrinsic value than a huge diamond set in a gold ring.

Anyways, we both agreed that you might get your ass kicked for precious metals..... but that you can't eat them, and if things are that bad, you can't trade them anyways. The guy with all the guns has all the food, and gold, and anything else. That guy who's always talking on the internet about his house on his hill with all his guns and shit.

 

That may be true, but...

you go on recognizing the fact that others DO recognize that gold/silver have intrinsic value. Based on your rationality, would it put your mind at ease if those who had great wealth were to exchange all their wealth for gold and silver making all that paper money available to others?

Could it be the supply that exists that makes them precious? And how exactly do you define intrinsic?

Wow, I'm willing to give you your choice, pound for pound, steel, aluminum, or copper, for each pound of gold. In fact, I'll give you 10 pounds of any of them for each pound of gold, okay?

Again, how are you defining intrinsic?

If things got as bad as you seem to be imagining, you would just as likely get your ass kicked for having anything edible in your possession. So you go on to make a case for having a gun(s) as the best means of availing one of their needs if times were to get bad?

Why does no one care to comment on the thread topic? " I Hate Middle Class "Liberals" and "Socialists" (and here's why)" WHY??

 

Roo,

We're already off topic, but for your information and perhaps helpful to better understand the intrinsic value of gold, the house I was raised in was purchased new, many decades ago and the price in dollars was equivalent to about 371 ounces of gold. Today that house is valued at the equivalent of 344 ounces of gold, or .93 times what it was new, but in dollars 42 times as much as the original cost. It might be interesting to know that the annual property tax is now greater than the original cost of the house, actually 1.19 times the original cost, an amount which took 20 years of payments to acquire ownership.

Could you put that in context with "hating middle class 'liberals' and 'socialists'"?

 

Liberal mindset in a nutshell:

a) I'm a victim (poor, woman, immigrant, black, gay, disabled, etc.) therefore I'm entitled to preferential treatment;

OR, more often than not,

b) I vote for the Democratic party (they don't even go through the trouble of having a black or gay friend anymore), therefore I'm entitled to preferential treatment.

--------

Have you ever heard two people on an internet forum (therefore, two people with access to computers) or two people on a college campus (therefore, two people with access to education) compete to see who's more of a victim?

The conversation usually runs a little something like this...A: "I had to lift myself up by my own bootstraps because my great-great-grandparent was an immigrant!!!!1 We had it way tougher than you!" B: "I grew up in a ghetto and had 10 black friends!!!!!!!!!!11 I had it way tougher than you, nigga!"

Doesn't that sound counter-intuitive?

Well, now you know why. Welfare princesses at work.

 

Because I hate threads that hate, and will dis haters...

Heres to molten gold in yer ear! :cheers2:

 

I hate to say it, but it would appear that hate is an emotion shared in common by all, but focused on different things.

If only we can all be taught to hate the same things.

 

That is all due to market dishonesty, with both gold and dollars.


It very well may make more sense to buy gold, or to sell gold, at various times. But it STILL has no REAL value.

You asked how I define intrinsic: useful. Other than electronics and space suits, I know of nothing useful that gold does. It had intrinsic value once upon a time, because it's malleable and easy to work, doesn't corrode or disintegrate, has a low melting point, can sometimes be found in nuggets without any mining, and can generally be worked WITHOUT metal working skills or know-how. Cultures that we don't consider to have been metalworkers where sometimes quite adept with gold -- and to those cultures, it would have been VERY intrinsically valuable. But that's not the world in which we live.

As for the guns: if you just want to shoot people for what you want, why are we arguing about government at all?

 

Market dishonesty?

It obviously has real value or something else less costly would be used in place of it, especially now that its price has risen sharply.

Even using your redefinition of intrinsic, you go on to show that gold IS indeed useful, having qualities unmatched by other elements in nature. The supply of gold that exists and is available to us it the primary source of its intrinsic value. I'm wondering just what world YOU live in.

How did guns enter into the conversation? I'm quite happy to pay for the things I want, and I thought the topic was supposed to be about "hating middle class 'Liberals' and 'Socialists'", and while I may disagree with you, I don't hate you.

 

Market dishonesty: big banks and other business screwing with the dollar, to get rich and screw everyone else. A dollar should be worth the same, it doesn't need to be tied to anything, it just needs to be handled honestly: look at bitcoins -- there's no bitcoin fed that can make more, so even though they have NO backing, and admit that the worth is only the worth that people give them, they're just computer files of numbers, they are experiencing deflation.

As far as gold goes, a huge amount of it is used in totally unimportant things. If nobody cared about wearing gold, or hoarding gold, it wouldn't be worth much, it would just be an industrial material. I'm exaggerating when I say it has no intrinsic value, but it does not have an intrinsic value anywhere near on par with the artificial "shiny stuff" value.

There is a limited supply of gold, and it is useful, but very little is needed for the things it's used for. You can buy a reflective "space blanket" for like five dollars, or all sorts of consumer electronics with gold in them for not much more, and the gold is not what's driving the price, either, it's just along for the ride. It had great intrinsic value to people who did not work metals, but we're thousands of years past that.

But how do you see that as me re-defining intrinsic? Intrinsic value is the value that is innate to a substance: sewedge has almost no intrinsic value, it's good for very little, it's hazardous and requires expensive processing before it can be safely disposed of, and there is a very great supply of it. I'm not entirely certain that supply should be factored into a calculation of intrinsic value, though. Either way, even if you give gold a high intrinsic value, that value is many orders of magnitude less than it's market value. Market value is determined by supply and demand, but demand is not determined by intrinsic value.

Guns? Ehh, I dunno.... the topic was generally silly, so everyone went off in their own directions.

 

" big banks and other business screwing with the dollar, to get rich and screw everyone else." - You need to clarify what this means.

"A dollar should be worth the same" - Worth the same as what?

"it doesn't need to be tied to anything, it just needs to be handled honestly" - The U.S. dollar isn't tied to anything, but there needs to be some means of determining its value relative to the things we exchange them for.

Bitcoin? - I'll stick with the local currencies that are acceptable where ever I happen to be.

 

I hope you are very successful in convincing others to feel the same as you about gold. Maybe that would drive the price down and I could acquire more of it cheaply. Oh, and gold is also used in medical practice, which you failed to mention.

How did sewage find a way into this?

Supply and demand DOES indeed have a great effect on prices, and the supply of gold does not increase at a great rate, while the supply of paper dollars can, and has been increased dramatically having not only great effect in devaluing them but also in raising the costs of the goods, services, and wages, including the cost of gold which the supply of remains relatively the same.

So we can forget about guns in this thread.

 

If food becomes so scarce that you'd think about eating gold or silver, you might want to rethink the gun part.

Unless you're gonna do the right thing and share your stuff

 

The same as what? The same as it was yesterday. All that you need to do is keep the same number of dollars out there, or have a ratio of dollars to people, or something like that.

Bitcoins are simply an example of a currency that cannot be printed out of existence.

 

If only it were so simple. Government, and the Fed are constantly adjusting our money supply and/or interest rates in an attempt to be able to show constant economic growth, and acceptable inflation, in step with a growing population while at the same time trying to bring about greater economic equality between both the productive and the non-productive members of the population.

Would you not agree that human needs and wants as well as the means to acquire them are a product of human labor.

Population growth along with advances in technology and mass production has created a situation where the supply of people has exceeded the needs for labor to produce our needs and wants, therefore creating a growing number of the population unable to put to use their labors as the means of acquiring the medium (money, dollars) necessary to exchange as a consumer.

As an example:

Many people have come to believe they are entitled to be provided with their needs, and even much of their wants, and are willing to acquire them by what ever means they find necessary, IF they are NOT provided them.

In the end, it would appear to me that hate is based not so much on the political labels we apply to people, but more on what they have, and what another thinks they deserve to have.