Husband/partner/buddy

Many gay men, if they are fortunate to have a long-time partner, will use the terms "husband" or "partner".

What about a bi male?

IMHO, I would guess that any male he is involved with would be a "buddy".

Here again, I am sure that there are many strong emotional undercurrents at work.

Can a married bi male have a long-established best buddy/bed buddy that is just as much a "partner" as his wife, if only in his mind?

I have found life as a single (and celibate) 65-year old gay male to be a confusing, convoluted journey indeed, and, I can only imagine how complex and confusing it must be for a married bi male to try to "balance" his two relationships, one with his wife, and one with his male "buddy".

How does this man "juggle" the two?

Does his wife know of his bi partner?

Does she simply accept the fact that her husband is bi and allows him "free reign", as long as he remains a "good" husband and father?

If life can be quite an obstacle course for a gay male, IMHO, it has to be even more confusing for a married bi male.

My admiration to any married bi male that "makes it work"........

 

She knows and doesn't mind it at all

 

You are indeed most fortunate to be married to a woman who knows your "bi side" and does not mind at all.

She is opened-minded, to say the least; and the best to you both!

 

I had tried the double life for a long time before shit hit the fan and my wife found out. 2 years now with out any same sex connections. If I could only turn back time maybe it would be different.
I’ve crossed the line with the same sex, I have enjoyed most of it. But it has really screwed my life up.

 

Man, that's rough.

Don't ask me, a TOTALLY celibate 65-year old gay man (how I've done without ANY m/m connections, all these years).....it CAN....and IS....frustrating, to say the least)

I sure hope that, somehow, things will change for you in the long run, and that you can once again enjoy same-sex connections and "be yourself".....

 

Papasmurph:

Once again, thank you for sharing your views and opinions; always right-on-the-mark, mature, and insightful.

Being totally gay (and celibate) I cannot even begin to fathom how difficult it has to be for a married bi guy to try to "balance" his sexuality between a wife and male friends/partners.

It CANNOT (and, certainly, IS not) a "walk in the park" by any means.

I sincerely hope that, one day, you will finally meet your male "soulmate" (it's obvious that, in you, he will have picked a winner, indeed!)

I know I will never have ANY sort of male partner, but, IF I did, I would simply introduce him to others as "my buddy".

Simple as that.

A married bi male, with a wife and kids, trying to either supress his desire for other men, or, risking disapproval for trying to "bond" with other men, has an uphill battle of it, no matter what.

I honestly believe that, for a bi man to try to go "cold turkey", so to speak, and "swear off" other males, can cause serious emotional and mental distress.

It is obviously a situation that requires much mature thinking, soul-searching, and, of course, honesty.....

 

Told my wife (again!) that my evil bi twin needed some "me" time...she's never thrilled to hear it, but gets it... We've been wrestling w/ my bisexuality since before we got married

 

"Me" time (translated "guy time") for a married bi male is quite integral to his well-being, and, often, quite complex..

From what I have read here, from bi married males, "me time" can often be a challenge.

IMHO, to deny one's sexual desires in the hopes of "conforming" can have serious mental/emotional "side effects" as the years go on.

One can only be true to one's self, regardless of what side of the "fence" you find your strongest desires on............

 

From what other married bi guys have recounted on this forum, you, indeed are QUITE fortunate, to say the least; other married bi guys should be as lucky......

 

A lot of guys are married, but don't get much sex at home, if any. Especially after years of marriage. They don't want to get divorced, just want to have some sex.
I used to meet up with a guy like that on a regular basis. No sex at home. She didn't want it and felt he should be OK with that.
He liked blow jobs, and I enjoyed giving them to him.

 

As I've written elsewhere, after my first girlfriend from 27-30 broke up with me, my gay desires surfaced and I began having a lot of anonymous oral sex in gay sex venues, for 21 years (over 200 guys), and then had my first anal, which had a profound effect on me. I stopped all anonymous encounters and only started getting together with other guys in each other's homes for more intimate connections. I then met my second girlfriend at 54. Early on in our dating, when things looked like we were headed to some sexual contact, I felt that I had to come clean about my sexual past. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I told her everything, and I mean everything, because she asked lots of questions, and I was 100% honest. But I felt that I was falling in love with her, having already known her for more than a year, and felt that she deserved to know if we were going to be having sex. If I didn't tell her, then when she found out in the future, it would have caused her a lot of pain. There was no way that I was going to do that to someone I loved. In telling her, I thought for sure that she would dump me. But she surprisingly did not, and in fact was very accepting of my history with guys. She just wanted me to have all the STI tests before we had sex, which was understandable.

Nevertheless, I think my bisexuality did affect our relationship deeply. When things were good between us during our very rocky 3-year relationship, I never thought of men, but only loved her. But during the many breakups we had, from the shortest of one week to the longest of 5 months, and with my heart broken each time, I always turned to gay fantasies and gay porn, communicating with guys on gay hook up sites, and reading & writing in bi forums like this. I never had sex with guys during these periods, but I sort of "cheated" on her online you could say, even though we were on a break. But she did go on dates with men during these breakups, including almost marrying one guy during that 5 month breakup.

Since I was always 100% honest with her, I think my continuing gay feelings also most likely had an effect on her, and caused her suffering. Even though she was an openminded person, and accepting to some extent, knowing how bi-spirited I continued to be I'm sure caused her suffering. I can't imagine the amount of suffering I would be inflicting if I was actually cheating on her with guys.

At some level I believe all women know when this is happening. This is why a long time ago I decided that I would never cheat on a partner. I also believe a lot of open marriages cause suffering at some level. They might not admit it to each other, but they might do so to a therapist, as they have done to a close female therapist friend of mine, who sees quite a number of people in open relationships. There's always suffering outside of monogamy, because everyone has varying degrees of jealousy potential within them, as long as they're still an ordinary human being (as opposed to highly spiritually realized in having removed every molecule of selfishness from their mind). I'm not saying this from any kind of moral high ground, because I have certainly developed harmful intentions against others and acted on those intentions. I'm not always a nice guy, a good person. I'm just stating what I believe to be fact: having sex with someone other than your spouse or partner causes suffering, or at least will cause suffering in the future, one way or the other. And I really don't want myself, anyone I know, or any living being to suffer.

Anyway, with my girlfriend and me, the worse our relationship became, the more I thought about sex with guys. It got so bad near the end, when we decided to just be friends with benefits, that I could only orgasm for her during sex by imagining it was a guy that I was having sex with--the one thing I never told her.

After we finally broke up, just before the pandemic hit, I gradually came to the decision that I could never have a serious relationship with a woman again, because my gay side is just too strong. I certainly can't lead a double life while in a serious relationship with a woman. So now, at 60, I have decided to pursue close friendship, loving sex, and even love with men only. In fact I have no interest in having sex or love with another woman. I'm only interested in men. Of course, who knows what will happen if I do enter a serious relationship with a gay man. Will my straight side become an issue? Or am I finally done with that? I still find women attractive, so who knows what I'll think, feel, and do when my heart gets broken by a man. I certainly have no idea.

Yes, being bisexual is certainly difficult.

As for your main question, I would say that if I was in a serious relationship with a man, I would introduce him as "my friend". If we were just sex buddies, I probably wouldn't be introducing him to anyone in my regular world, since I would keep that separate, as I currently do. Only my ex-girlfriend, a few mutual female friends that she told without my permission, and two therapists know about my bisexuality. Only if I actually have a boyfriend will I come out to everyone, and as I said, introduce him as my "friend". If our relationship grew to a more permanent one (we lived together, shared bank accounts, etc.), then he would be my "partner": this term is used in a lot of straight relationships too, especially if they're only common law. If we actually got married, then he would be my "husband".

 

Thank you for sharing so much of your private life with your friends here.

As you know, I am a 65-yerar old celibate gay man, who has never been in any sort of relationship (and, that I was bashed in 1986, certainly fueled my desire to stay celibate for my own well-being) who, for all practicle purposes, has become a recluse, only venturing out to do errands once a week.

When i see what the world is like, and how insensitive, vicious, unfeeling, and cruel so many people are these days, I am more to content to live in my own little "realm".

Don't get me wrong; I will risk my life to save someone.....anyone...... from danger.

But do not ask me to trust anyone; those days are now long, long gone.

Does it get lonely? Frustrating?

Hell, yes, you better believe it.

But, still, it is a SMALL price to pay for the guarantee of remaining safe from ANY sort of hurt, physical and/or emotional.

Being a bi male, especially one in a serious relationship with a woman, has to be beyond complex, confusing, and convoluted.

I have large respect for ANY bi man who is able to handle his sexuality with honesty, and act out what HE knows is RIGHT for HIM; from what I've read from other bi men here, life on the "bi side" is often ANYTHING but a walk in the park.

Again, thank you for sharing so much of your personal experiences......it takes a great deal of GUTS, for certain.

Wishing you all the best in future m/m relationships........

 

papasmurph:

Most assuredly, your current situation is indeed a hard one to "navigate".

IMHO, married bi men, with family, face many difficult situations that straight men have not the slightest inkling of.

You, obviously, had many difficult decisions to make over the years; when a married bi man finds that his same-sex attraction is far more powerful than that of attraction to women, indeed, a "conventional" marriage is not going to work, especially when you have to, for all practicle purposes, "keep up appearances".

That you did not choose to abandon your family indeed speaks much of your decency, integrity, and your strong sense of responsibility.

Stay strong, my friend, you are not alone, I am sure.......

 

@thepapasmurph: Thank you, I also feel a very kindred spirit with you, and love all your very wise and compassionate posts. You're a very thoughtful man. I kind of wish you were literally swimming up Niagara River, because then you would be a couple blocks from where I live, and I could quickly run down and rescue you, lol. And then we could be close and perhaps very special friends, wink wink.

But figuratively swimming against the powerful Niagara, I don't for a second wish for you to have had, or have, that kind of life. I truly can't imagine the complexity of navigating that kind of marriage, together with your bisexuality, and the pain you have endured. And that's ditto for so many guys, bisexual and heterosexual. I'm not positive about male gay couples, but I doubt they have the same problem with sexless marriages (in general), since we guys basically go from puberty to very old age as horn-dogs. Sometimes I think, in so many ways guys are most compatible with other guys: thank God for bisexuality and homosexuality!

I absolutely do not judge you or anyone else that cheats, unless it's in a completely uncontrolled desire manor without thought. I just wish people didn't have to, and then suffer the all-round consequences. Life is so complex, especially with relationships of all types, and then mix in bisexuality--as I have first hand knowledge of--and you have an even greater mess. I wish you, and just plain everybody, complete freedom from suffering and peace deep in their heart always. If only this can be--someday!

Love,
Gary

 

@GrayGuy57: I feel such compassion for you in the circumstances that life has given you, leaving you living a life basically in fear and mistrust of others. You sound like you have so much to offer others, that I truly wish you didn't have to live as a recluse. I don't know if you have tried therapy, but it sounds like it might be something that could help you. 65 is so young still, and there are so many gay men who would love to be with a man like you. Yes, I can't begin to understand the trauma that you have experienced at the hands of really messed up people. But I also know that that level of evil pathology is rare, compared to most of us out here who are only moderately fucked up. I don't know what kind of community you live in, but I doubt at your age venturing out to meet other people in general, and gay men in particular, has the same danger as you might have found in your younger years, when your peers were more confused and violently impulsive.

There are certainly therapies like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) and Exposure Therapy that can help ease you back into being a flourishing member of society, one who has all kinds of relationships, including romantic and sexual ones. Yes, it is true, that many people suffer from loneliness, but that usually fluctuates through life, and sometimes we do find opportunities to share our caring and love with others, the true source of happiness. It is almost impossible to be happy as a recluse. True happiness comes from wishing others to be happy, and then helping them be happy. In other words, we need people in order to be happy.

Please don't waste the rest of your life, a precious human life, by living a way of life that benefits no one, including yourself. You owe it to others to be there for them. And we owe you our love as well. But none of that can happen if you only leave your home to run quick errands. Yes, you're very comfortable and very familiar with your current way of life. But has it truly served you well? You're an intelligent guy: look at it truthfully and tell me that it hasn't actually just served to make you a prisoner in your own home and in your own mind. Don't you think it's time to break free?

Heck, you've already made the first step by participating in a forum like this, and perhaps other online forums. Good for you! Now make the next logical step: search for a therapist that can help you to physically get out there. That's what they're there for. Perhaps he or she will begin with just online sessions through an app like Zoom, live video chat. There's little risk in that, no?

Love,
Gary

 

Gary:

I am truly flattered, humbled, and grateful for your compliments, kind words, and advice....thank you!

Therapists?

I cannot even begin to count how many I've seen over the years (the last was 20 years ago)

Believe it or not, back in '95, I DID, in fact, TRY to meet a decent, respectable, masculine guy like myself.

My local daily, on Sundays, used to print a HUFE "personals" section, that included gays and bisexuals.

I placed my (free) "ad", and recorded a message that could be accessed by anyone who was interested in my ad.

The ad ran for two months.

I kid you not, not ONE response....NONE (I was VERY honest, and said that I was celibate, VERY average in looks, and had been bashed once before; I also listed my many interests)

And, do you know what my reaction to this was?

I actually LAUGHED!

Yes, LAUGHED!

I said to myself, "Man! What a dud I have to be!")

That was the FIRST and ONLY time I ever tried to seek a life partner.

My heart went out to the family of a gay college student who committed suicide by jumping off the George Wahington Bridge a number of years ago, because he was "outed" by a lowlife fellow student in his dorm.

It really sickened me; what a tragic, senseless waste of a young, promising life!

I will continue to be honest, here......

Several years ago, I was "phone friends" with an older (straight) man who lived out of state, but once lived in my state.

We had the same hobby, and we had met on a forum years ago; we talked on the phone for several years (I even met him personally when he was in my area to visit relatives, and seemed a very nice guy)

Fast-forward to four years ago.

He called me and told me he was diagnosed with cancer.

To get his mind off what was going on with his health, I called him every night, and we talked for an hour or two about our hobby and our family memories.

I figured if I could get his mind off his cancer, and talk about happier times, it would help him better cope.

I even once received a very thoughtful gift from him, thanking me for my concern and my friendship.

Then, one night, we were talking on the phone, having a good chat and some laughs, when I told him I hasd to use the bathroom, and I'd call him right back.

I did (several times) and he never answered.

I was afraid that he had some health-related incident and could not get to the phone.

I prayed for him that night.

The next morning, I find a VERY long (and downright cruel and abusive) email from him, telling me that he was tired of me bothering him, monopolizing his evenings, and, to simply LEAVE HIM ALONE.

What I was called hurts too much to recount here.

Here was a FRIEND I supported through his illness and treatments, and he SUDDENLY stabs me in the back for NO reason.

Was I hurt?

Confused?

Hell, yes!

Later, I thought "what if I had been in a PHYSICAL/EMOTIONAL relationship with this guy, and he suddenly dumped me, for NO reason??"

I have endured (and fought) many, many battles on my own over the years; my best friend (who was straight and regarded me as a brother and was ALWAYS supportive of me) passed away from blood cancer 12 years ago.

Devastated?

You have no idea.

I might not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but, even I know that, without TRUST, there can be NO relationship of ANY kind.

Again, I truly thank you for your kind words and advice.

Though i live in the shadow of a great Eastern city, I have seen enough attacks on gay men to know what is out there.

Of course, I DO know there are MANY, MANY decent gay men out there, who might be looking for a partner, but, given what I have endured, despite the loneliness and frustration, I cannot....and will not risk......trying to find a partner.

Inside of me is a solid core of resolve; like a lone, battle-weary soldier fighting in a battle against a massive army heavily-armed, I know I cannot defeat the enemy.

Sometimes, I believe, the bravest thing ANY man can do is to admit he's lost the battle, and simply go on his solitary path, with at least his dignity and character intact.

Thank you again for your concern, my friend.......

John

 

John, I also thank you for your honesty and sharing with us some of your lifelong experiences. In fact, I have to apologize because I do now remember reading you explaining these events before. I'm truly sorry that you had to experience these things. From an ordinary point of view many seem inexplicable: it just makes no sense for people to treat you the way they have.

But I'm a Buddhist, so I have some understanding of the law of karma, or cause-and-effect, and how our previous actions lifetimes ago cause all of our experiences in this life. I'm sure that my many rejections by women lifelong is because I have rejected many others in the past, or specifically rejected each of these individuals in some past lifetime, or did crazy things like interfere with others' relationships. It's of course not about me deserving what I get, or some judge dishing out punishment to me. It's just a universal law of cause and effect, like the law of gravity. Out of ignorance and delusion I harmed others in the past in these various ways, so now I experience the effect of receiving similar harm. What goes around comes around. I don't know if this might give you some solace.

But we also don't have to lay down and be a victim to our past actions either. We can purify the potentials for future suffering those actions left in our mind by (1) regretting them sincerely and (2) promising never to do them again, plus (3) do some beneficial action to towards someone (which can even be a mental thought of wishing them happiness) to kind of countermand the harm we've caused others. These three things then purify our negative karma. Then those potentials to experience some future effects of suffering from those actions get nullified: those potentials for future suffering get destroyed and then bad things don't happen to us, at least not in those ways. If we keep purifying in this way every day, eventually we won't have any negative karma left, and then there will be no cause remaining for any kind of pain, suffering, or problem.

It's a pretty cool philosophy that everyone in the world kind of believes, at some level. So the real danger doesn't actually lay out there in the homophobic world: the only danger lies there in your mind, but it's a danger that you can make disappear. And as long as we don't create new harmful actions against others, and avoid planting more potentials in our mind for future suffering, but instead do beneficial actions towards others, and therefore lay potentials for future happiness in our mind, we're on the road to permanent happiness.

Love,
Gary

 

Gary:

Reading your responses is much like reading a professional thesis; you, obviously are a man of great intelligence and knowledge.

Through the years, I've given to many charities and goodwill causes; even if the amount is small, I truly feel as though I am making a meaningful contribution towards helping those less fortunate than myself.

I was raised thusly; "Think of others first; treat others as you wish to be treated."

Simple, but profound advice, to be sure.

Sadly, as I grew older, I found out that, just because you treat someone else decently, does NOT mean that they will also treat you in the same manner.

As you know, I am 65; to say I have lived quietly is indeed an understatement.

I was my homebound mother's caregiver for many years until she passed away in 2016 at age 99.

I promised her she would not die in a nursing home; I more than kept that promise to a truly loving, giving, caring, beautiful lady.

I have outlived both my parents, as well as my two older brothers.

I once read: "No one is truly a grown-up until they have lost both parents".

A truly profound statement, indeed.

One of the reasons, in all honesty, I enjoy the "solitary life" is that, within my walls, I feel the equal of any straight man.

Once outside, though I walk erect with my head held high, I not only feel unequal, but, also, very much an ultra-minority.

I had thought that when my mother passed away, I would have a serious breakdown (in fact, my family expected it)

But, somehow, perhaps still being "in shock", so to speak, I still function as I always have, and go through the motions of each passing day.

That I can function (and even enjoy the simplest things) despite my great loss still scares me; it even, at times, seems almost disrespectful.

The few friends I have are "phone friends" (all live long distances away); certainly, if I suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth, their lives, also, would still go on, with no profound sense of loss.

In all honesty, I have NEVER, by coincidence, met not even ONE gay man in my town, and I have lived here for nearly 50 years.

I was always hoping, many years ago, that I would encounter another guy at the local newsstands, also browsing at the gay publications.......no, never did.

IF, back in the day, when I still worked in the city, I had been able to find a gay club/"watering hole", etc., that catered to masculine, discreet gentleman, I MIGHT have tried to see what it had to offer.

But, too afraid of bashers, too afraid of disease, too afraid of being turned down or rejected, I never ventured into this venue.

It was only the love and dedication for my late mother, in all honesty, that kept me from committing suicide (yes, in all honesty, I have had suicidal thoughts in the past)

That was a long time ago.

As we all have to "cash in our chips" one day, I always hope that, when my number is up (I like to joke that I have an unlisted number!) I would wish to die while saving a life, and know that I DID save a life, before I passed on.

Personally, I think that the most noble way for ANY man to pass on is to give his life up, in order that someone else may live to see another sunrise.

Again, I thank you for allowing me to be honest and open.......and it is very good to know that I can do so openly.