Homosexuality = sin

Hi gay guys 'n' gals.

Wonder if you could take the time to answer this question for me? There's a christian over on the UK forums who's arguing that it's not judgemental to define homsexuality as a sin. He believes that because he thinks we're all sinners and he accepts everyone as they are, he isn't judging anyone and his views aren't homophobic.

My position is that the very act of referring to the consumation of gay love as a sin is judgemental and homophobic, since the consumation of heterosexual love isn't seen as a sin also. What do you guys think?

If you're intersted, the debate starts here:

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37686&page=2&pp=10

 

i voted not judgemental... its one thing for a person to say something is a sin because of their religious beliefs, and another thing to act like a jackass homophobe because of your religious beliefs... in the end, it doesnt matter... because I dont believe in any of the bullshit bible fairy tales... so if someone wants to keep bullshitting about sins and shit, be my guest.

 

I'm not gay, but I have plenty of friends who are... I voted that it's not judgemental, however, I wanted to tell you that this dude is missing a very important point.

Whoever he is, he needs to recognize that any kind of sexual relations outside of marriage is a sin according to the Bible. Just because it's a woman and a man doesn't make a bit of difference, it's all the same! So, if this same guy is running around screwing a bunch of girls, or even one that he's not married to, he's a hypocrite.

Remind him that it's not his place to do the judging. He needs to deal with his own sins before trying to preach to others on how to live their life.

Sounds like this guy needs a good dose of understanding and compassion.

 

OK, so the word SIN you are talking about is a relgious word, and if it comes from the bible, then yes homosexuality is a sin in the rules of the bible.....Also, MARRIAGE as pertaining to the biblical meaning of the union of marriage, cannot join homosexuals in marriage.

The only sin in sexual relations is where common sense dictates it is wrong...Child molesting, rape, torture ect;

The bible says it is a sin, do you believe in the bible ? If so then you are sinning, if not then you are not....

 

According to the Bible, it's a sin. If you believe the Bible, you are faithbound to believe this. So it's no judgemental, just a epithet of your beliefs. However, acting on that belief would be homophobic.

I'm not sure about all this though; it kinda depends what you mean by judgemental. I know the Bible says "judge not lest ye be judged", "let he who is without sin cast the first soon" etc. So technically, you can only be a homophobic Christian if you have a stainless soul yourself. People forget that.

 

That's not true though. The bible says it's a sin, but then it also says trimming your beard or touching a menstruating woman is a sin. So deciding which bits of the bible to believe is a human choice. There are plenty of christians who don't view homosexuality as a sin.

 

"Pick-N-Mix" Christainity eh !..........

Take the bits you like and leave the bits you don't....

Somehow I don't think the authors meant it to be that way...

So are "Pick-N-Mixers" real christians ?

 

no one is a real christian, they are all hypocrites.

 

The bible never stated that homosexuality is wrong.It stated Homosexual intercoarse is wrong. I believe in the story of Jesus Christ (his existance and what he did) is true, but I don't believe in the rest of the bible.
Now..I'm not gay, nor am I bi...I think...
but I can't stand people's descrimination of these people. It's fuckin' stupid the way sociaty treats these people. Love is love,NOT a sin. You can love whomever you want, what's wrong with loving a person of the same gender? Believe it or not, being bi is even more natural then being straight, and there have been many reports of homosexual intercoarses by animals too. Soooo? What's people's damn problem with homosexual/bi people???Fuck sociaty...
I'm totally on your side, people!

 

Some people would say that all that is required of one to be a Christian is to 1) believe that Christ died to make a way for them to get to heaven, and 2) try to act as Christ did while He was here with us.

Of course, someone who is condemning anybody for anything isn't acting Christlike... I think SelfControl already said it, but "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" were the words from His mouth, so other Christians would do well to remember that.

I don't know if that's necessarily so, but I agree that more often than not, a lot of folks who call themselves Christians forget the very rules they're supposed to live by.

The Bible is kind of like a rule book... You really can't pick and choose what you like and what you don't. Play by the rules, or you're just a cheat.

 

So you're saying it is a sin, as a counterargument to my saying that it is? Wow, new horizons in debating...

I know what you mean, some people pick and choose bits of the Bible to follow. And if you think that's the word of God, I guess you can pick and choose, and hope that you're holy enough at the end.

In my view though, following the Bible is like following any other book as gospel: if you're going to do it at all, deciding that you will then change bits renders it rather pointless.

So, in summary: I don't get gay Christians.

 

No, I'm saying the bible calls it a sin. The bible can call a cat a dog. It doesn't make it so. Also, being a christian doesn't mean that you have to blindly follow ever word within the bible.

 

1) If the Bible says something is a sin, then it is a sin according to the Bible. If that's not what I said, it's what i meant.
2) If a Christian doesn't follow the Gospel to the letter, he may as well not call himself a Christian at all, as he obviously doesn't regard the text as ineffable.
3) It's not a bad thing to not be a Christian.

 

But strictly speaking, a Christian is a follower of christ. So anything in the bible that isn't directly endorsed by Christ is open to interpretation surely?

 

I don't know. I'm not a theologian. I was just always led to believe that a Christian is someone who follows the word of Gord as written in the Bible. I guess God could've been a bit more specific, but the thing about lying down with his fellow man is pretty clear.

 

Yeah, I agree. But Leviticus 19:27 also states:

... which is also pretty clear. Don't see many christians following that law.

 

Christians aren't the only ones using the word 'sin'. Since there are many other religions
too, that consider things to be a 'sin'. So...a sin doesn't depend on the bible, it Depends on what YOU believe. And I believe there's no way it's a sin!

 

Yes, and they're all going to Hell as a result. What makes you think that God is a nice guy and will just let that pass? His plan is ineffable, it doesn't have to fit round you. That's my opinion on it, anyway. If I was a Christian I wouldn't want to fuck with God.

I don't believe that homosexuality is sinful myself, but I think if you subscribe to a religion that says it is you should either put up with it or leave and cope without religion. Then again, I was raised without a religion.

 

Well, the bible is all interpretation. No, he's not judgemental by calling you a sinner, but he is making a lofty claim. What isn't stated clearly in the bible - I.E anything that is subject to interpretation - shouldn't be used as an argument. Christians can't give you one passage that specifically prohibits homosexuality. Genesis chapter 19, involving Abraham's brother-in-law, Lot, in Sodom and Gomorrah was about condemnation of decadence, indulgence, and idolatry. Leviticus 18 (something) says "thou shall not lie with male as those who lie with a female; it's an abomination.". This could be interpreted as referring to the Canaanite Baal god fertility rituals to increase fertility of crops. Again, no human sexuality was mentioned.

Either way, you shouldn't care. If you love men, you love men and someone on the internet can't change that and means nothing in that. It's a beautiful thing. You should challenge these interpretations, and ask the people who give you these ideas in which book, chapter and verse they found this, and exactly how they could come to have interpreted it in the way they did.

 

Yes, but you are referring to OLD law, which some jewish beliefs still value and follow. However, the arrival of the Messiah made way for the NEW law, which means I can shave and I don't have circumcise my child in order to be right with God.

One thing I saw here is how someone pointed out that this was directed to the act of homosexual intercourse and not to being homosexual in nature. This is why I voted no. Most Christians, if that's what they really are, should follow the "hate the sin, but love the sinner" mindset. You'd see less homophobia out there if they did.