Hitting the 50s

Something that occurs to me is that the employment world seems to be shrinking. Especially since I crossed the half century mark. While employers can't openly admit to this in the US, anyone on LinkedIn can see overseas postings that clearly state age limits that generally center around the 50s. Few of them want 50+ employees, regardless of their expertise. Why? Because most employers know fully well how shitty their healthcare provisions actually are.

Think about it folks. Companies are actively doing all they can to kick your parents and in some cases your grandparents to the curb. Especially in the US. Somehow experience has become less valuable in the face of increases in healthcare costs. Face it folks, we're nothing more than profit machines for our wealthy masters.

What I'd like to explore in this thread is how we old freaks will survive going forward.

Think about it. Most of the employment research these days is devoted to how they can keep millennials happy enough so they don't know they're being used as we were. We have been discarded and the jobs are drying up. Personally, I'm looking at ways to raise my personal efficiency. I've done things over the years to reduce costs (like solar panels and LED bulbs), but now I'm considering how I'll work this 1 acre plot as if it was a rooftop garden so I can augment our food supply.

I'm very interested in how everyone else of this vintage plans to ride out the future.

-Jal

 

I'm in my 30s so excuse me for butting in

But I did see my mom struggle when she was laid off from her job of 30 years when she was 62.

Its tough out there. She is working again but it has nothing to do with her previous career and the pay is shit. And she just started drawing social security so thats good, at least you guys have that. I doubt my generation will have it.

I think having a plan in place to be somewhat self sufficient and cut energy and food costs is a good idea. Retiring in a third world country is good way to stretch those dollars too if you dont have anything holding you here

 

Hi,

I'm in my 30s too, and my mom, who pretty much started life over in her late 30s-early40s by going back to school and all that jazz, is only a few years from retirement. She's going to buy a house as an investment, travel, all the good stuff.

And I tell ya, when I'm her age? I won't be anywhere near retirement. Can't speak for everyone, but in my little corner of the world, the older generation is actually much better off. That being said, only time will tell

 

The key to success in our generations, is to keep looking for higher pay jobs.

In their generations, things were meant to be fixed. Now, everything is disposable. Everything...
That's why we must chase the almighty dollar by any and all means possible. Life is a competition now, it brings out the best in us.
And with those that have low character, it brings out the worst. We pay for their living in jail.

 

"hope I die before I get old"...
oh wait, too late...

I was actually hired at the job I have now because I am an old fart with years of experience.

 

I just hope the next generation realises, how important education is..

There will be no small time work soon, not even in supermarkets, with self service, and online.. only top jobs soon..

 

I know, right?
Getting to the point that criminals will have it better than the common citizen.

 

In the UK, most already do.. never see police anymore, seems we don't have them much.. so forget your dreams about being a cop in the UK.. ain't gonna happen!

 

I didnt breed, I'm loaded


But seriously, as soon as my mother keels over, fuck this first world shit, I'm off to the mountains north west thailand, could live off $US5000 a year there

 

When I get old enough to retire I'm thinking of splitting, going somewhere I can live cheaply. Off grid with my own garden. Off grid community....maybe.

 

We used to think the same about the Philippines----we paid our maids and other helpers pretty well, better than most others--generally, 3 maids we paid somewhere between US$ 75 - 125, the head maid making the most. We traveled to Japan quite a bit, while my wife's kids were left at home, so we had two security guards---1 day and 1 night $100/month (this was the standard contracted rate to the security company. We had a gardener that would come every few days to keep our yard nice, $15/month. And a driver, about $75 a month. The food was cheap. Sometimes we would take the family and head off for the beach for a week or two or more---basically until we got tired of staying there, or felt like we better head back and pay the maids.

That was the late 1980's. Prices have risen considerably since then. Back then the local hospital did not have an ambulance service, so I always thought that----if I did retire there, and ever had a heart attack or something like that, I would probably be dead before anyone was able to do anything. Now that is different in that neighborhood. But we really wanted to buy a beach property in Anilao Batangas, and build a nice big house. This is a very popular dive spot and people come from all around the world, but the last time IO visited there in 2007, it was the same story about emergency help. If something happens to a diver, such as a shark attack, stingray sting, cone snail, sea snake bite, etc, even if they get back to shore, they basically die there, as there is no emergency rooms in the area. So even if I was in my home, and had a medical emergency in my old age---that's probably it for me...

 

I've been hearing this idea a lot lately--of people moving to 2nd or 3rd world countries in their old age. Do you worry about health care at all? Or culture shock? Safety? Lack of order? I mean, you'd probably have enough cash to last for years by Thai standards, so I presume that this would solve a lot of potential issues. Your plan makes sense, logically, but it seems too good to be true.

 

Culture shock, no been going there every year for 17 years.

Healthcare no, hospitals in some parts are world class, they do big business with medical tourism, and i'm male probably dtop dead somewhere between 65 and 70 anyway

 

And for 10,000 dolla a year you could have like, slaves and shit.

 

I didnt see that before

Dude, seriously, "we used to think that" (it was cheap) then you talk about maids, gardeners, security guards?

No, I'm just talking about a cheap room in some familys house.....laptop, internet, shower and coffee is all I need, maybe do a bit of my own gardening

I say thailand over the phillipines or vietnam because there arent the same kind of security issues. Hawaii's Big Island would be on the list if it werent for scarcity and cost of healthcare

 

I can dig that Vanilla Gorilla-----though the maids sure are nice. The one problem with Thailand is you get a taste of revolution everytime there is a major election. In terms of security--Japan would be the most ideal place. Its just so expensive, and if you want to live cheap you have these crappy wooden apartments with shared bathrooms that can be pretty cold in the winter, and that have no shower or bath (you have to use the public bath). You also need to justify your visa somehow----study tea ceremony or calligraphy or something. Healthcare is very cheap though (assuming that none of that has changed over the past few decades).

Then there are the women in each of these countries-----if you want to stay single, that will be a trick. On the other hand, if you want women to play around with---there is a hearty supply. If you know how to read the signs, you can find them anywhere---because they are pretty aggressive in wanting to meet foreigners.

Right now I'm partial to Southern France---Nice in particular----I don't know why because there is only so much there. Monaco and Italy are a short train ride away. From southern France you have much of Europe to explore with Thomas Cooke Airlines for about the same cost as a tank of gas from Denver to one of the hot springs I frequent. And London in particular, Paris is nice too. I've always loved the London scene----then a quick flight and I'm sitting on a topless beach on the French Riviera.

French girls love to flirt---but I don't know how easily and how far that goes from there as my Filipina wife can get violently jealous.

I love Asian food, I can sit for hours in a sushi bar, or a yakitori restaurant. I have been known to order 5 or 6 plates or more of Roasted Blue Marlin steaks in the Philippines (but for a couple of dollars a plate, who can resist?). As for Thailand---well I don't eat as spicy as I once did---but just go into a market and there is so much for your mouth to explore. But it is in Europe where we eat 6 - 7 meals a day. Part of it is the variety---Middle Eastern eateries, next to a Vietnamese restaurant, next to a French restaurant, for example. And the European candies and cakes... Marzipan, candied oranges dipped in chocolate... mmmmmaaughaughaugh... (weight was never a problem for us, but now that I am getting older, I guess we would not be able to live too long in Europe at a time. We always leave with a bit more weight...)

 

Ohhh, I forgot to mention----3 maids, a gardener, driver, and security guard----well, say, 2 maids----and we were still paying less than what we pay per month now for cable/internet/phone. I don't know if I could rent a room in someone's house---though I know there are people that do that.

 

And those maids in the Philipines, did you ever make any effort to go visit the villages they came from, chat with all the grandmothers, aunts etc, their children, find out how many relatives they were actually supporting. The mere mention of security guards already tells me the answer is no.

That may sound like I'm attacking you, but seriously "if you want women to play around with---there is a hearty supply.".....of women or girls that will go with a foreign guy to his hotel room to help feed the 3 kids and 1/2 dozen too old too work relatives she is looking after. Have you never seriously considered what those workers think of you?

Security guards? You only need that if it looks like you have money, then you never get too see everything. Dress like they do, catch the 50 yr old bus like they do, eat where they eat. Then you see everything

I say fuck this first world shit, because they are happier, both sets of grandparents, half grandparents siblings, a whole bunch of grandkids, all living together, supported by that maid that used to work for you and people like you, or supported by that girl that fake smiled at you in your hotel room, along with her sisters as their husbands all fucked off long ago.....and yet they are happier than us, because they have far bigger families and are always together


You are probably going to get defensive, but think about it, you were there complaining about whatever you were complaining about, your wife was nitpicking over whatever she nitpicks about.....whilst one of those maids was keeping quiet, doing her thing, feeding a family of ten on $12 bucks a day

 

Let me try to answer this without sounding defensive----because I really do see your point. And, I have to laugh, because what I wrote really does sound like it was written in the light that you put it in. And actually $12/day back then, in the provinces bought a good amount of food.

Our maids were very happy with us. Usually we had money---we paid our maids very well, far more than they would be paid in any other house (I can't speak for the very wealthy households in Manila, but...). It was only the security guards that were contracted, and therefore they had a set rate. My wife grew up in an upper class Philippine family---though they too had rough times, the Spanish wealth was squandered by her parent's generation---which is typical for much of the old money.

So I would go out and drink with our driver, and then my father-in-law would try to straighten me out, that the household workers wouldn't respect me if I get too familiar with them (I disagreed).

It actually took a little getting used to having someone wait on you---my wife was always telling me, ‘don't do that, the maids will take care of it.’ And there were times when I felt like she worked them too hard----but it was then that I suggested we needed another maid. And we did take care of them—and their families. If there was a family emergency, we would let them go back home and we would help pay, or even pay for medical expenses. We paid for our driver’s maternity ward, when his wife gave birth, our car got her to the ward, and I was even in the room as she gave birth (amazed that there was an open window with a goat on the other side chewing on things from a pile of garbage). We treated them like family. We never took such expenses out of their wages.

In fact, our relationship with those that worked with us, had to be close, because they were the ones who looked after my wife’s children when we were in Japan (another reason we had security guards). We needed people that we knew, and trusted. I wouldn’t have done it that way personally, but that is how my wife was doing it when I met her. On the other hand, I would never put a kid through the Japanese school system---and the international schools in Japan at the time were the most expensive in the world. And the way we traveled back and forth, they would be continuously changing schools midterm. We needed to trust the maids with money, and that they would feed and take good care, of the children, and keep them safe.

But we took care of a lot of people---even when we didn’t have money. When you left our subdivision there were street kids that we got to know. At first we would give them money, then we realized they were buying glue to sniff---so instead we would always buy food for them. After Mt. Pinatubo exploded, we wanted to go up and help the Aeta Mountain tribe. But then we figured we would just be in the way---the UN, UNESCO, Red Cross and others were there. However a month or two later and it became clear that a group of wealthy landowners were illegally grabbing the donations. So we would rent a jeepney, fill it with food, medicine and clothing, and then drove up looking for refugee camps. We did that 5 or 6 times, maybe more---I lost count. In the next subdivision there was an orphanage, and one time my wife suggested we check it out. We learned that they survived mainly on donations, and from that time on, anytime we could we would show up at an orphanage with prepared meals for all of the children and then see what other things we could help with. We arranged for some used computers to be sent from Japan to one orphanage (the Japanese typically threw such things away regularly---programmed to always replace things with the latest). We got the American Chamber of Commerce of the Philippines to donate various things to another orphanage and repair their dilapidated vehicles. We continuously helped people every time we saw someone in need. And everyone that worked for us, loved us----we still connect with those we can---some through facebook. They are still like family to us.

When we did run out of money and hit hard times---a story I’ve related to on these forums, one maid in particular continued to stay with us for several months, even though we couldn’t pay her. She ate with the rest of us, and shared our struggles—she was free to go anytime.

I had to reflect a little bit on your post----because you could have hit the nail on the head. I say that because the 1980’s was that time in my life that I refer to as being seduced by the dark side. I was an analyst for Shearson Lehman covering the Tokyo stock market. I was with the hottest woman I had ever seen in Japan, or perhaps ever---an entrepreneurial minded Filipina who was a TV actress. I wrote a column for a major newspaper. I was well connected in Japan, and every time I was with my fiancé on the set, I would meet another celebrity. We partied hard, we planned a business empire (I did make other people rich too, but…). It seemed like the ride would never end. But we did have our hubris---right as everything was about to really pan out----brought on by my very manipulative and self-serving Japanese ex-wife. Right as I was really starting to get a taste of power and wealth.

As years went by, I’ve kind of painted that period as a dark time in my life philosophically. A lot of my own money was made by tracking shady stock manipulators and trading against them. Then there were trades made following crisis, business collapses, and other bad events, for example, the Japan Airlines crash that killed all but 2 people on an overloaded 747. I made a huge fortune off of the AIDs scare in Japan (and actually predicted it). Some people may find such things as unethical (I still don’t really). But I did admire the techniques of the old Robber Barons. The plan my ex-wife thwarted involved an investment company that I was setting up in the Philippines and would have engaged partly in stock manipulation in the Japan----that was a significant part of that market back then.

I dressed like Don Johnson (Miami Vice) and my trips back to the states, my friends would wonder how much I changed----I always responded, ‘Once a hippie always a hippie.’ And I believed I still had the same ideals; that I was still that same hippie. But in recent years I sometimes felt that I probably had changed during that period. I guess over the years I kind of forgot about the good things we did do. And I could have been that exploitive 1st world colonial-minded white guy taking advantage every time I could. But I didn’t. (In fact I found it to be the other way around-----I got very street smart in the Philippines. In fact, the conniving manipulations of my first wife prepared me for that, by breaking down my own naiveté and trust of others.)

I could have made a killing in the Philippines very easily. I was told that in order for people to refinance loans on their property they had to do a title clearing loan---basically an overnight loan where you would make 10% and hold the title, paying the old loan which would take it off of the title, and then turn over the title when you were paid from the proceeds of the new loan. It was so easy and safe that we started to do this. I was told that it was illegal for banks to take on titles with the old loan still on there. We thought 10% was usurious, so we offered to do it for 8%. We did one property, and the borrower was very pleased that we only took 8% (rates were around 5% per month for loans back then). The next time we started to do this again (with a friend from Japan also investing in the deal, I was talking to the borrower’s banker wondering why there was such a restrictive lending law. He responded, “Oh, there’s no actual law like that---we will take a title and clear it ourselves. It’s just one of those stories that loan brokers use to make extra money. As soon as I heard that, we only did that on another 5 or 6 loans (I’m joking!!). We actually stopped immediately and spread the word as best we could that it was all a scam.

You brought up another good point where I sounded like a typical foreign sexist that comes to these countries and sees the women as sex objects, or even the kids. I will write a separate post on that----I didn’t mean it quite that way, but that is a serious issue for people thinking about moving there—and it seems I inadvertently promoted that.
Anyway----about the maids----these people are not treated very well in their own countries by their own people. Especially the kind we would hire----the naïve innocent girls from the country sides (Manila girls were street smart and hard to trust). The truth is, they are basically treated as slaves that get paid---usually half of what we would pay. They worked hard, often times may not even get breaks, and could even face rape and other things (I will write more on that in the next post----there is also a two way street there---maids looking for a sugar-daddy boss, etc.).

In other words, there is plenty of need for good-hearted people to hire maids, pay them well, treat them with respect, and so forth. I have heard from many maids that the best bosses they had were foreigners. In fact there are maids who speak English or German or another language well, and seek out only foreigners to work for.

 

Oh no, I didnt mean to try make you feel guilty about the sex thing. I'll talk about Thailand because I know that best, I know what both Thai women and men are really like, some nuanced differences with the Philipinos, but probably not buy much, same situation

I know a lot of the thai women will go off with the foreign guys anyway

Just on the thai men thing and the treated better by foreigners than there own people thing. First couple of visits to the rural areas and it looks like most of the men are good for nothing lazy drunks....but it only looks that way because one isnt paying close enough attention.

After many visits, you then realize its actually because a lot of the men have run off to the city to earn a better wage, leaving in these rural areas a bit of a vacuum, a higher proportion of females to males in these areas, single mothers looking after the kids and grandparents and such....and the men that are left their, the working age men that is, 16 to 50, do actually simply represent the laziest quarter / third of the male population.

Then you realize that shit is generational, and these girls grew up with their aunts, mothers having a kid or two with one guy, then him moving on

So they are all used to relying on their female relatives, males are disposable. And thus somehow with that and all the day to day work needed, it all ends up being more matriarchal, places like rural phillipines, vietnam, thailand more matriarchal that western society I would argue. And as I said happier than us

That most trusted maid you mentioned, that stayed with you when you couldnt pay her, you got on really well with....even her, I bet raised an eyebrow at times, thought to herself, you've never really known what hardship is, what a hard days work is, or someone like me for that matter, again not attacking you

Meanwhile back in the West we get asinine stories like Meryl Streep being called "brave" for speaking out because Dustin Hoffman grabbed her boob one time