Helping an MDMA enthusiast with loss of magic

Ever since my first MDMA experience, I knew it was the beginning of the most beatiful, amazing and GOD DAMN EUPHORIC friendship. That was a little under 2 years ago. At first I was smart about it and only did it every few months due to low availability but then a year ago I got a solid socal hook and just went nuts, rolling every 2 weeks for several months, in the beginning I only needed 2 pills to send me to heaven and beyond, now I need upwards of 5 no matter how long I break for and on top of that I can still only reach 1/3rd of the peak I use to get, oh how amazing. Can someone please explain to me what the reasoning for this permanent tolerance is and if I can ever get it back. Anyone who knows, knows... Just thinking about the peak has me rolling if for only a half second. Please tell me I cam get it back?

 

your serotonin receptors have been down-regulated. You need to take 6 months to 2 years off MDMA to allow your brain to slowly reset itself to homeostasis.

 

Well, first take a break from it. I have known people to have to take a good 6 months off. Mabey L-tryptophan can help your 5ht. Dopamine precurser(s) out. Take before going to bed nightly. Also consume a diet rich in amino acids that regulate neurotransmitters.
Vitamin C with L-tryptophan can help when done a few days prior to a roll. Not too many things you can do besides that really.

 

Ok well the good news is I have already begun my break and I have no problem quitting for 6 months to dare I say it, 2 years. But what of the people who say even after years of use they remain magicless, I'm sure they were the ones dosing daily, not me though. Oh well, I guess time will tell, it's not ALL gone.
Are there any other amino acids you can recommend?

 

None of that will do any good. The problem is not that he doesnt have enough serotonin, but that he doesnt have enough serotonin receptors. These you cannot create or give your body anything to help it create them (afaik).

His problem is that his brain needs a certain number of cars in a parking lot to function at optimal level, and what is happening is that with repeated use of MDMA, your parking lot shrinks. Throwing ingredients for cars into his stomach isnt going to be of any help, because his body wont use them anyways, since his body is the very thing which is shrinking his parking lot! It is doing this as a protective reaction to the fact that on many occasions now, his parking lot has been filled to overflowing. Instead of making more spaces, his body decides to discourage this (and smartly so) by shrinking the useable area.

And look how brilliant your body is; it works. The organism reacts, and stops ingesting MDMA. Once enough time has passed, his body will say "Ok, things have been steady for a long time now, none of that weird traffic, so lets open up those spaces we blocked off"

 

Ok thanks mr writer that's what I originally believed to be the case, neurological evolution if you will, quite interesting at that. I'll take the break advice and go for Maybe a year, what of the reports though of the people who have tried for years? Were they simply the daily abusers? I have only rolled >20 in the past 2 years and before that nothing. MDMA is simply too precious to me NOT to wait and recover. Favorite chemical of all time.

 

technically it would be neurological adaptation (not evolution - which is what species, not individuals, do)
i'm only being so anal b/c i'm a biochemist

i have never done mdma, and i've heard about losing the magic, but i think it's similar to other drugs - they are never as good as when you first did them. pot, acid, even RCs that i've tried, all were the best the first few times. don't chase it too much.
but like all tolerance, mdma tolerance will fade with time. it's not a yes or no thing, it's a broad spectrum. even if you do E once a month, you still get SOME tolerance.

and mr writer has it...right.

just to add. your brain has been overstimulated by mdma. specifically your serotonin receptors. so they have "learned" to ignore the signal, AKA have been downregulated. now when you apply the same or even more mdma, the receptors aren't affected as much. the more time you don't expose the receptors to additional activation....the more they revert back to "normal" or how they were before you got a tolerance. pretty much the same thing he said.

and since you're coming to the synthetic forum, some might suggest the use of different drugs to mimic the effects of mdma. perhaps bk,mdma (methylone i think), or 4mmc (mephedrone? i'm not positive)
they might be close to mdma, but they also might be more dangerous, so keep that in mind

 

Heh thanks for the info, well unfortunately there is no drug that can bring as much euphoria as MDMA, mephedrone is downright dangerous and I won't try it and methylone releases 1/3rd of the serotonin that MDMA does but works in the same way so there would be w cross tolerant effect making it even less. Also there are erowid reports of peoPle permanently losing the magic, that's my fear, until you've tried MDMA you can't possibly understand how awesome it is, full body orgasm is a major understatement.

The best time of my life was the day I did 4 mollies in a night. To you MDMA lovers, yes, it went beyond HOLYFUCKINGSHITOMFG haha. I was so euphoric I was literally rolling around on the ground laughing maniacly and making out with my pillows making love to the world.

 

^HAHAHA^

...but if you REALLY feel so strongly against taking a break, maybe that means you really should.

if the experience means so much to you, isn't taking some time off worth getting it back with all of it's former glory?

 

i'll have to try it IF i can ever get it (legit, not some shitty pill)

 

Check out this link. Some good information. Scroll down past the shit at the top. Most

http://www.geocities.com/jdivx2002/Extacy.html

Quoted from bottom: (most of this has already been said)

LOST THE MAGIC?:
Have you used ecstasy to the point where you don't feel the magic any more? Ok lets say its been 1-2 months since your last roll, you've been eating healthy, taking 5-htp, and doing everything possible to prepare for your next roll. The time comes, and you drop a tab. Nothing happens, here's why. Ok, you might have enough serotonin to have a good roll, but the serotonin has nothing to bind to because of whats called Down Regulation of Serotonin Receptors. The brain is built to adapt to changing circumstances. One of the ways your brain adapts is through the up-and-down regulation of receptors. What this means is that if your serotonin receptors get hyper-activated by serotonin molecules, they may retreat into the membrane of the dendrite, essentially shutting themselves down for a while. One theory says they do this in order to avoid getting damaged from over-stimulation. Another theory says that it is just a way for your brain to maintain a balanced, normal state. Whichever one of these theories is true, it has been proven conclusively that serotonin receptors will down-regulate over time if bombarded with large amounts of serotonin. Even after your brain serotonin levels have been restored, the serotonin cannot bind to downregulated receptors. If this is your situation, you will need to quit taking ecstasy for several months to a year (depending on how heavy of a user you were) to get the magic back. I would suggest taking at least a 4-6 months break if not longer just to be safe for a moderately heavy user, and 6-8 months for a heavy user, and 8-12 months for a extreamly heavy user, to bring back the magic. For those reading this, you know what category you fall under.
Preparing for your next roll: When you know when your going to roll again follow these steps, (which I do, and there tryed and true, and work GREAT!). Two weeks or more, (or less but do not suggest or guarentee if it will work) before your roll do this: The first week or two take a multi-vitamin, and between 120-180mgs of Ginko Biloba a day, (all in the morning, 40-60mgs 3 times a day, or all at bedtime), 50mgs of 5-HTP 2-3 times a day. Then the week before your going to roll follow the above steps, except take 100mgs of 5-HTP 2-3 times a day for 5 days, the 6th day go up to 150mgs 2-3 times a day, and the 7th or day you roll take between 120-180mgs of Ginko Biloba just in the morning, and 200mgs of 5-HTP in morning and evening, and 200-300mgs 2-3 hours before you roll, and between 100-300mgs when you take the ecstasy. Around 2-3 hours into your roll take 100-200mgs of 5-HTP and take another 100-200mgs when your done rolling. The next day or two or three take a multi-vitamin, 120-180mgs of Ginko Biloba, and 50mgs 2-3 times a day to help prevent side effects to the brain and body. Read Preventing side effects to learn more about Ginko Biloba, and 5-HTP. Read this for more Drug Info.

 

Interesting and even though MDMA is a substituted methamphetamine which means it shouldn't be the same as methamphetamine alone, some of the seratonin receptor shut-offs sound similar.

In any case it sounds like MDMA is very physiological. I think 6 months is a good idea. I know that's probably very hard. I would avoid anything like MDMA because it might reduce the magic longer, like methylone or mephedrone.

I would try drinking more, honestly, and smoking more cannabis, to help you go through the 6 months. Cannabis does not affect the dopamine recpetors and I don't think it has the same effect on downregulation of seratonin receptors.

There is some magic from the GABA receptor, maybe you want to switch to that to help you in the meantime? Alcohol seems to be like mini-valium because it works on the GABA receptors, maybe you want this in the meantime.

MDMA seems to me to be something very powerful and best if very rarely used. I imagine that some of the experiences you have had were positive and maybe you can hold on to those experiences for the future.


This seems to be very physiological and 5-HTP is good, I would take a lot of vitamins and supplements to build yourself back up for awhile.

Just think that the longer you don't use MDMA, the better it will be. Maybe you can do something with your life in the meantime that will bring some benefit, making the end experience that much more rewarding.

There are lots of things you could use to stave off your hunger, I think, and if methylone activates 1/3 of the seratonin recpetors, I wonder if using this as a replacement if you needed it, temporarily and in small amounts, may help you out in the long term.

 

this is actually a very good illustration of what happens to your brain with downregulation of seritonin receptors. I applaude you, Mr. Writer, for this example

 

I'd recomend staying off all drugs that activate the serotinon release. what you want to do, is let your body get used to normal, baseline serotonin levels. if you try to avoid drugs that target these neurotransmiters you'll recover better. If you use seritonin producing drugs, it might lead to you not recovering at all.

 

So what are the options? LSD? Alcohol? Cannabis? I know cannabis doesnt work with dopamine receptors while most other drugs do... I know it isn't seratonin, but I think dopamine fibbing might be just as bad, if not worse, so this may be a good option, to get some medical marijuana.

I would agree that staying off anything that fibs with the seratonin receptors is good for the end goal, but it depends on what the true needs are.

If needs are great, I think that methylone would work great to wean you off.

If needs are not great, do nothing, exercise until you pass out every day, drink a little bit of alcohol, maybe a few beers, up to 6 each day (6+ beers a day starts taxing your liver), smoke some cannabis on weekends, and have sex or masturbate. Haha, just trying to be a realist.



If you can get into a routine of exercise and a beer or two at the end of the day with the occasional blunt, I guarantee you will have what you are looking for within a year, the body should be able to recover itself.

Of course, the best thing to do probably would be to do nothing intoxicating for 6 months or more, but who in their right mind would do that? Insanity?

 

I was getting into MDMA on a fairly regular basis. Last time I rolled it wasn't as great as it used to be, and the next few days put me into a horrible depression with some of the highest anxiety levels I have ever had (SAMe and 5-HTP helped). I'm definitely taking a break now. But in the mean time I have been exploring more with other drugs like mescaline, lsa, and hopefully lsd soon. By the time I am more experienced with these, I will take MDMA again and I'm sure it will be even more fun.

It is easy for me to disrespect MDMA by using it at raves that I'm not really that into or combining it with alcohol. I'd much rather be using it with close friends, outdoors, or in a hot air balloon (my fantasy).

 

in my experience the loss of the magic is permanent, i wish you luck tho

 

in my experience as well, although the longest break ive taken has only been like 2 months if that.

Xanonimity, he can do other serotonergic drugs, he just can't do ones with a mechanism of action like MDMA, so all MDMA analogues are a no-no, but things like mushrooms are fine, even though they act serotonergically, because they dont simply cause a flood of serotonin, they mimic serotonin and do their own little thing.

and i believe methamphetamine acts primarily on dopamine receptors. GABA sucks alcohol, benzos, amanita, ketamine . . . bleh. doesnt compare to dopa or sero

 

I don't have a problem just smoking weed, I'm not a omfg I need some powerful drugs in me all the time!!! Kind of guy, I'm a stoner who enjoys a roll and a trip once in a while, nothing more. I can easily smoke.

To the above posters, this was the question I asked multiple times, and I'm getting mixed answers, if it's permanent, why? Because I took a 2 month break a month ago rolled and it was no better than the roll before the 2 months. The magic is so amzzzzzing.

 

your brain takes a LONG time to reset, and it may never reset. it depends on your brain.